Dying for God

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Dying for God

Postby jenniferatemple » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:09 pm

I just finished reading this paper. It has occurred to me that a case could be made that the official opposition to the Baha'is in Iran are in fact a favor. I say this in light of chapter 3, "MARTYRDOM AND SUFFERING IN SHIISM". I know it sounds nuts, but is it not possible that the attitudes might change if they thought they were actually bringing their victims closer to God based on their own beliefs?

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Re: Dying for God

Postby Jonah » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:09 am

One could certainly make that case, I think! I wish I could offer more insight, but I haven't thought much about the topic in the 18 years since I wrote that paper.

To be honest, I chose that topic and wrote about it largely because I had to work through my own feelings and thoughts about the Faith's relationship to Islam, to Shi'ism, and to the recurrent themes of suffering in this and other religions. It was a sort of personal catharsis. But after spending a year researching and writing it, I had my questions answered and my concerns quieted, and I could move on. ;-)

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Re...Dying for God

Postby authorpeterthompson » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:26 pm

the Islamic government in Iran is ran by unreasonable fanatics, so logic is not their strong suit.

True Muslims would yield to the Bab's writings, at least in spirit, and embrace the original Bahai'i Faith mission to unify world religions. They would be seeking the prophetic dispensation with zeal, and formulating a reconciliation with reformed religion and improved translations.

My understanding is that one of the first missions of the Bahai Faith was to orchestrate a United Nations of world religions. Of course in 1850's, nobody wanted to do that! Has anybody got any insight into that objective? To say that the Bahai writings are usurping all other teachings is as absurd as saying that the Christian Gospel replaces all the Old Testament teachings of faith, wisdom, and law.

Far be it from anybody to say that, if you ask me! That's not how progressive prophetic revelations and dispensations work anyway. (Furthermore the actual language of the Bab in his cancellation of the religious traditions of the day are hidden from our view, and we are asked to take it on the word of a distant committee, without much explanation to speak of.)

It is my estimate that the tensions were still running high from the Napoleonic destruction of Europe and the Holy Kingdom of France, and also the downright unlawful occupation of the New World by the Spanish and English. That context makes the Babi and Baha'i writings quite sharp towards the manifest infidelity of religion, an occupation that was thrust upon all the world in the days of the world war of Napoleon, the anti-French dictator from Sicilian Naples.

What I am saying is that the church and the mosque and the synagogue were all occupied by bad guys at the time, and much destruction had just occurred. The fledgling United States was still staggering from the 1812 burning of Washington DC. So even the Mormons, which sounded a similar note of anti-corruption lamentation and finger-pointing, were echoing the same concerns about occupied religion. Indeed, to this day most all of religion is basically occupied by not-so-nice Romans. (Notably, the Victorian Restoration did take flight and make worlds of progress in the areas of archaeology and translations of ancient writings. Make no mistake, these two world-wide trends are somewhat inter-related.)

So, the theme of the early writings of the Bab might be something to the effect of what would be heard by Buddhist monks right after the Communists shut down their temples and oppressed their congregations. The tone would be shrill at times, and sharp, and overall negative, and biting satire might be there too. Then a return to the regularly scheduled programming about faith and renunciation and good works, and Heaven's divine supremacy and institutions.

Just saying, there were reasons for the critical stance of the Bab, and also of a good number of the tablets of Baha-Allah. The Bab later tones things down substantially, yet there is no doubt the people of the world were rebuked in 1844 and so forth, for the occupation of the entire world by Napoleonic pinheads. Something to keep in mind when reading some of the more reproach-themed tablets.

I don't know it all, I just wish to help increase insight into murky matters.

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Re: Dying for God

Postby authorpeterthompson » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:38 pm

The entire world situation could easily be improved with a serious Vatican Council in Ephesus or Istanbul, or something,
to address the issues of static between world religions,
and the greater correlation of the doctrines of authentic religious literature,
instead of opposition to other religions.

Certainly, we are seeing more than ever the similarities of all the religious people of the world, and of all the unwashed masses.

Religion is a shelter for our children, and it won't be too long before people everywhere start demanding authentic religion,
in lieu of the false religion doctrines that divide and conquer the Saints.

Educate that you be free. ~ Irish proverb

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