where do i find it in the quran...

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Noisiodimelem
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where do i find it in the quran...

Postby Noisiodimelem » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:58 am

i have been said tht.. god sents a new messenger after every 1000 years!! is this statement true? i also have been told tht the very quran speaks of the coming of a new messenger (bahaullah ).. it is mentioned in the quran tht this wld happen after 1000 yrs after the prohesy of muhammed.. so these are the proofs from the quran bout the manifestation thru bahaullah.. now could you tell me where do i find verses in the quran which ascertains this.. it would be of great help..thanks

EFIKIfubG
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Postby EFIKIfubG » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:09 am

Good Morning nilofer,

I don't know if there is or is not a 1,000 year prophesy in the Quran off hand, but I do know there are many Hadith, which I don't have immediate access to now, that refer to the year 1260 of the Islamic calendar (1844 in the Gregorian calendar) as the "date of the return". The 11th Imam died in the year 260 A.H. and so ended the period of divine guidance that started with Mohammad. The 1,000 year period until the next Manifestation of God started then, I believe.

This is one of my favorite references to Baha'u'llah in the Quran:

From the Surah of The Companions
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[39.68] And the trumpet shall be blown, so all those that are in the heavens and all those that are in the earth shall swoon, except such as Allah please; then it shall be blown again, then lo! they shall stand up awaiting.
[39.69] And the earth shall beam with the light of its Lord, and the Book shall be laid down, and the prophets and the witnesses shall be brought up, and judgment shall be given between them with justice, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

The first Trumpet is the Bab and the second is Baha'u'llah. The 'light of the Lord' is Baha'u'llah, the Glory or Light of the Lord. This is very similar to the three "Woes" mentioned in the Book of Revelation, the three Woes who are in order Mohammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah.

Abdu'l-Baha cites Ezekiel in showing a"Woe" is a new Day of God or Revelation with Revelator: Ezekiel 30: 1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! 3For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near,...

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound
Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Sorry, got off on a little tangent there! :-)

Warmest Wishes

gladtidings

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:07 am

Noisiodimelem wrote:
i have been said tht.. god sents a new messenger after every 1000 years!! is this statement true? i also have been told tht the very quran speaks of the coming of a new messenger (bahaullah ).. it is mentioned in the quran tht this wld happen after 1000 yrs after the prohesy of muhammed.. so these are the proofs from the quran bout the manifestation thru bahaullah.. now could you tell me where do i find verses in the quran which ascertains this.. it would be of great help..thanks

Hello Noisiodimelem.

There are a few verses in the Qur’an in which mentions, “THE DAY OF GOD IS A THOUSAND YEARS” as the following:

“And they ask thee to hasten on punishment, but Allah will never break His promise. And verily, A DAY WITH THY LORD IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS OF YOUR RECKONING”. (Qur’an, 22:48). (1)

Before referring to the subject of your quest, let me tell you why the Day of God is a hundred years.

I this world, the ordinary day of twenty four hours is when our SUN rises in THE MORNING and sets IN THE EVENING which follows by the darksome night.

In the spiritual world, THE SUN OF TRUTH namely the Divine Manifestation appears each THOUSAND YEAR, and near the end of this period, the night of negligence spreads its DARKNESS over the believers of that Faith and then THE SAME SUN OF TRUTH with another name (RETURN) appears in the horizon of religion.

Referring to Adam and those Prophets Who followed Him, namely, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus (2) and Muhammad, we see that the religious period of each and every one of Them was about A THOUSAND YEARS; altogether SIX THOUSAND YEARS. (3):

For any nation "UMMAT" there is A FIXED PERIOD OF TIME (The Qur'án, 7:34). (4)

“To every people (Ummat) is an appointed term: when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor an hour can they advance. (The Qur'an, 7:34).

If someone says, Ummat means a person, the following verse is indicates that the company of the Muslims is called Ummat:

“YE are the best community (Ummat) that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah ….”. (The Qur'an, 3:110).

Now the following verse, reveals the quantity of the ABOVE MENTIONED PERIOD, which is the quest of your search, and indicates that God ordains THE CAUSE OF GOD descend from heaven of Divine Will to the earth and then returns back to Him in a period of a thousand years:

“He will plan the Divine Ordinance from the heaven unto the earth, then shall it go up to Him in a day the duration of which is A THOUSAND YEARS according to what you reckon”. (Qur’an, 32:6).


The Baha’i Faith came six thousand years after Adam (Adam about 1000, Noah about 1000, Abraham about 1000, Moses plus Jesus about 2000, Muhammad about 1250 years; (5) altogether about 6000 years. I have to add that Adam was not the first human created by God, but the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle.
_________________________________________________________________

(1). In Christianity the DAY OF GOD is a thousand years too: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that ONE DAY IS WITH THE LORD AS A THOUSAND YEARS, and a thousand years as one day". (2 Peter, 3:8).
(2). The exception is with Moses and Jesus who completed each other, the cycle were 1300 and 700, altogether endured two thousand years, each shares a thousand.
(3). The Adamic Cycle.
(4). Ummat which has translated to “NATION”, “PEOPLE”, or “COMMUNITY” is a plural word in Arabic and means “the collective followers of a religion”.
(5). The period between the Revelation of the Qur’an (Wahy) and its interpretation (Tafsir), was 260 years, which by adding to a thousand, sums up to 1260.

BruceDLimber
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby BruceDLimber » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:06 am

The interval between Divine Messengers is typically 500-1,000 years, though this sometimes varies.

Regards, :-)

Bruce

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:20 pm

BruceDLimber wrote:
The interval between Divine Messengers is typically 500-1,000 years, though this sometimes varies.

Hello Bruce,

That’s quite right, what I have mentioned about are just the Divine Manifestations in THE ADAMIC CYCLE which are mentioned in the Holy Bible not those Prophets who are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an as Hud Idris and Yahya ibn Zakariyya (John the Baptist) etc. and series of Prophets appeared in Persia, the last of which was Zoroaster, and the series of Asian and Far-East Prophets etc. and Prophets who appeared in all over the world.

If you are Iranian and heard about Attar, the Islamic scholar and poet, in one of his books of poem, Si-Fasl (Thirty chapters), describing the six days of creation by God and His establishment on His Throne, has the following poems:

The six days are the duration of six Prophets, I was taught by the Qur’an.
Firstly it was the call of Adam; He propagated the Religion of God in the world.
And then describing five other Prophets of Adamic Cycle in detail, states that the
The day of God is a THOUSAND YEARS and six Days is equal to six thousand years.
When the six thousand years elapsed, The Promised One of Islam, The vicegerent of the people (Mahdi or Qaim) will appear.

MontanaDon
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby MontanaDon » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:05 pm

i think this needs to be taken w/ a grain of salt, understood as mythology not history. For instance, how do you fit Hud, Salih and Idris/Hermes into this schema?

It was an idea that was very popular w/ early Baha'is, many of whom identified Idris/Hermes w/ Enoch.

Don C
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Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature.

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:09 am

MontanaDon wrote:
i think this needs to be taken w/ a grain of salt, understood as mythology not history. For instance, how do you fit Hud, Salih and Idris/Hermes into this schema?
It was an idea that was very popular w/ early Baha'is, many of whom identified Idris/Hermes w/ Enoch. Don C

Hello Don, I wonder whether you had time enough to read my post carefully!

There are neither a history nor a Baha’i subject; I quoted from the Islamic beliefs for a friend and mentioned three of twenty five names who believed by Muslims to be Prophets, so it is not my views to be a pinch of salt or to view it with skepticism!

Would you please quote where did you find what you have mentioned that the early Baha’is were identifying Idris as a Manifestation of God?
Do you know that the Baha’is believe in Nine existent religions of the world and their respective Divine Manifestations?

brettz9
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby brettz9 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:32 am

Not following the thread closely, but see http://bahai9.com/wiki/Idr%C3%ADs (and maybe also http://bahai9.com/wiki/Prophets )

MontanaDon
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby MontanaDon » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:22 am

see Qur'án 19:57-58, which states: "And commemorate Idrís in the Book; for he was a man of truth, a Prophet; And we uplifted him to a place on high."

What we acknowledge are 9 named religions as having come from God.

See MEMORANDUM on this site
From: Research Department
The Universal House of Justice
Date: 6 August 1996
To: David García

While it is true that one letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi speaks of "existing" religions, a subsequent letter refers to "known" religions. We have no authoritative statement that the Mandaens of southern Iraq are in fact the remnants of the Sabeans referred to in the Qu'ran and Baha'i Scriptures. This is a subject of some debate among scholars.

On a world wide basis, the claim that a new Manifestation appears every 500-1000 years simply does not play out well. The Qu'ranic discussion was limited to the traditional religions of the near east and should be understood in terms of the religious/spiritual point being made, not its historical accuracy.

Don C
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Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature.

BruceDLimber
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby BruceDLimber » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:43 am

I>[A] series of Prophets appeared in Persia, the last of which was Zoroaster.

While Zoroaster was indeed one of Them, He was not the last!

Two more appeared recently: the Bab, and Baha'u'llah (Who is the latest but not the last--there will never be a "last").

Peace, :-)

Bruce

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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby BruceDLimber » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:47 am


D>For instance, how do you fit Hud, Salih and Idris/Hermes into this schema?

Hud and Salih are two of the Divine Messengers; no problem (though Their religions are long extinct).

Idris/Hermes appears to come from Greek mythology and is not part of the sequence of recognized Divine Messengers.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

brettz9
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby brettz9 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:11 am

Baha'u'llah did not indicate a Qur'anic source for this, but stated:

"Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and re-adorned."

(Baha'u'llah, Kitab-i-Iqan, par. 218)


This does not mean it needs to always be literally this way (the text states "about"). The Baha'i Writings moreover say the next One will be in a thousand or thousands of years.

And as pointed out, certain Manifestations of God, may have previously appeared in fairly close succession--e.g., Abraham...->...Joseph and the references in the Baha'i Writings to the uniqueness of the Baha'i/Babi situation do not need to be seen as contradicted by such a fact either since there Baha'u'llah may have meant to exclude those Manifestations with a lesser role (in addition to perhaps considering the 1000 years relative to geographic region).

These Manifestations might have brought Their own Book (since Manifestations are usually defined this way) and must have been equal in station (as explained They are in the Writings, though not in the measure of Their Revelation), but were more to keep the community refreshed rather than, bringing such a high measure of a new civilization-altering Revelation (e.g., Joseph's impact on civilization would appear to be lesser in comparison to say Abraham, or, analogously, as the Manifestations in the Baha'i cycle are to have a seemingly lower position by falling under the shadow of Baha'u'llah despite being independent Manifestations).

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:28 pm

BruceDLimber wrote:
While Zoroaster was indeed one of Them, He was not the last!
Two more appeared recently: the Bab, and Baha'u'llah (Who is the latest but not the last--there will never be a "last").

Hello Bruce
Zoroaster was the last in the series of Prophets of ancient Persia or the last in what we can call it Yimaic Cycle.

Yima in Zoroastrianism is as Adam in the Adamic cycle and Mahabad was a Prophet before Zoroaster. The religious book of Mahabad was Paiman-i-Farhang (the Excellent Covenant) in which was His code of laws.

Baha’u’llah ushered a New Universal Cycle that must extend over a period of at least five hundred thousand years.

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:09 pm

MontanaDon wrote:
What we acknowledge are 9 named religions as HAVING COME FROM GOD.

You have changed the following sentence of mine to the above one:

Do you know that the Baha’is believe in NINE EXISTENT RELIGIONS of the world and their respective Divine Manifestations?

Telling that we believe in nine existent religions does not mean that we do not believe to bygone Prophets and their respective religions.
In logic they say: “It does not follow from affirming a predicate of a subject that other predicates must be negated of the same subject”.

Regarding the different kinds of prophets, there are two kinds of prophets:

1). The Founders of religions, The divine Manifestations, the Greater Prophets or The Prophets endowed with constancy.

2). The Lesser prophets, those as Daniel and Ezekiel in Judaism, Matthew and Mark in Christianity and Imam ‘Ali and Imam Husain in Shi’a Islam.

From Islamic point of view, there are Rasul (Massenger), Who is the Founder of religion and Nabi (prophet) who is the lesser prophet and is under the shadow of the Messenger.

In the Qur’an, Every Messenger is Prophet too but every prophet is not a Messenger.
The title of Muhammad the Prophet, “Seal of the Prophets” in Arabic is “KHATIMU’N-NABIYIN” which means the Seal of Nabis not Rusul (the plural of Rasul).

MontanaDon
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby MontanaDon » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:45 pm

We do not know w/ any authority whether the Sabean religion still exists in some form. While the Iraqi Mandaeans claim to be the Sabeans of antiquity, we do not know that for sure. Without scriptural authority we are left w/ the opinions of scholars and they are divided on the issue.

As to the station of Idris, there is no explicit statement in either the Qu'ran or Baha'i Scriptures saying he was both prophet and Messenger, but early Muslim commentators and many yet today assume so.

Don C
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Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature.

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:21 am

MontanaDon wrote:
[
We do not know w/ any authority whether the Sabean religion still exists in some form. While the Iraqi Mandaeans claim to be the Sabeans of antiquity, we do not know that for sure. Without scriptural authority we are left w/ the opinions of scholars and they are divided on the issue.

As to the station of Idris, there is no explicit statement in either the Qu'ran or Baha'i Scriptures saying he was both prophet and Messenger, but early Muslim commentators and many yet today assume so.

Regarding the Sabaeans, we are sure of THEIR EXISTENCE, otherwise it was not confirmed by the Baha’is as one of the EXISTENT RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD

“As to the religion of the Sabaeans, VERY LITTLE IS KNOWN ABOUT THE ORIGINS of this religion, THOUGH WE BAHÁ'ÍS ARE CERTAIN OF ONE THING, THAT THE FOUNDER OF IT HAS BEEN A DIVINELY-SENT MESSENGER. The country where Sabaeanism became widespread and flourished was Chaldea, and Abraham is considered as having been a follower of that Faith.
(10 November 1939 to an individual believer). (The Universal House of Justice, 1996 Aug 06, Sabeans, UFOs, Alien Abduction and Genetic Engineering).

“As to the SABAEANS WHO CLAIM TO derive their religion from Seth and Idris, the Research Department has, to date, been able to locate only one additional brief reference in the Bahá'í Writings to Seth. In The Promulgation of Universal Peace: Talks Delivered by 'Abdu'l-Bahá' during His Visit to the United States and Canada in 1912 (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1982), page 365, the Master describes Seth as one of the "sons of Adam". There are, however, two very interesting references to Idris contained in a footnote which appears on page 148 of Tablets of Baha'u'll'ah Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1988). One is a quotation from the Qur'án 19:57-58, which states: "And commemorate Idris in the Book; for he was a man of truth, a Prophet; And we uplifted him to a place on high."

The second is a statement by Bahá'u'lláh in which He identifies Idris with Hermes:

“The first person who devoted himself to philosophy was Idris. Thus was he named. Some called him also Hermes. In every tongue he hath a special name. He it is who hath set forth in every branch of philosophy thorough and convincing statements. After him Balinus derived his knowledge and sciences from the Hermetic Tablets and most of the philosophers who followed him made their philosophical and scientific discoveries from his words and statements..” (The Universal House of Justice, 1996 Aug 06, Sabeans, UFOs, Alien Abduction and Genetic Engineering)

Regarding Idris, he has mentioned twice in the Qur'án. The Muslim writers generally know him as a prophet. Idris. The ancient historian entitled Idris the prophet "He who had three blessings" because God had given him the three favors of PROPHETHOOD, PHILOSOPHY and KINGSHIP. (Mu. v.1, p. 77)


the following are some statements from the Qur’an and the Baha’i Faith:

“Also mention in the Book the case of Idris: he was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet: And We raised him to a lofty station”. (The Qur'an, 19:56-57).

[1 In one of His Tablets Bahá'u'lláh wrote: 'The first person who devoted himself to philosophy was Idris. Thus was he named. Some called him also Hermes. In every tongue he hath a special name. He it is who hath set forth in every branch of philosophy thorough and convincing statements. After him Balinus derived his knowledge and sciences from the Hermetic Tablets and most of the philosophers who followed him made their philosophical and scientific discoveries from his words and statements...' In the Qur'án, Sura 19, verses 57 and 58, is written: 'And commemorate Idris in the Book; for he was a man of truth, a Prophet; And we uplifted him to a place on high.'] (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 148).

In the Baha’i literature there are, two very interesting references to IDRIS contained in a footnote which appears on page 148 of Tablets of Baha'u'll'ah Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1988). One is a quotation from the Qur'án 19:57-58, which states: "And commemorate Idris in the Book; for he was a man of truth, a Prophet; And we uplifted him to a place on high."

The second is a statement by Bahá'u'lláh in which He identifies IDRIS with Hermes:

The first person who devoted himself to philosophy was Idris. Thus was he named. Some called him also Hermes. In every tongue he hath a special name. He it is who hath set forth in every branch of philosophy thorough and convincing statements. After him Balinus derived his knowledge and sciences from the Hermetic Tablets and most of the philosophers who followed him made their philosophical and scientific discoveries from his words and statements....” (*). (The Universal House of Justice, 1996 Aug 06, Sabeans, UFOs, Alien Abduction and Genetic Engineering).
_________________________________________________________________

(*). It has written in “Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 148”.

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:27 am

There are more information regarding Sabaeans and Idris, any question?

brettz9
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby brettz9 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:02 pm

FYI, just came across a pilgrim's note published in Star of the West mentioning the next Manifestation possibly not coming for even 20,000 years--which I added to the end of http://bahai9.com/wiki/Him_Who_will_be_ ... s_of_years

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:47 pm

Brettz9 wrote:
FYI, just came across a pilgrim's note published in Star of the West mentioning the next Manifestation possibly not coming for even 20,000 years--which I added to the end of http://bahai9.com/wiki/Him_Who_will_be_ ... s_of_years

The unauthenticated “pilgrims notes” have no binding authority:

"Thou hast written concerning the pilgrims and pilgrims' note. Any narrative that is not authenticated by a Text should not be trusted. Narratives, even if true, cause confusion. For the people of Baha, the Text, and only the Text, is authentic."
('Abdu'l-Bahá: from a previously untranslated tablet) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 437)

"Regarding the notes taken by pilgrims at Haifa. The Guardian has stated that he is unwilling to sign the notes of any pilgrim, in order that the literature consulted by the believers shall not be unduly extended... This means that the notes of pilgrims do not carry the authority resident in the Guardian's letters written over his own signature. On the other hand, each pilgrim brings back information and suggestions of a most precious character, and it is the privilege of all the friends to share in the spiritual results of these visits". (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 54)

Regarding the question you asked him about the quotation of the Master's words: As this particular quotation is in the nature of pilgrim's notes (no original text being available), he feels it should not be given prominence at all.
(Shoghi Effendi, Messages to the Indian Subcontinent, p. 287).

Regarding the duration of the Baha’i Dispensation, Baha’u’llah in His writings asserts “ABOUT A THOUSAND YEARS”:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor”. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 32).

“Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and re-adorned”.
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 198).

BAHÁ'Í DISPENSATION (Duration of)
"Concerning your question relative to the duration of the Bahá'í Dispensation. There is no contradiction between Bahá'u'lláh's statement in the Íqán about the renewal of the City of God once every thousand years, and that of the Guardian in the Dispensation to the effect that the Bahá'í cycle will extend over a period of at least 500,000 years. The apparent contradiction is due to the confusion of the terms cycle and dispensation. For while the Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh will last for at least one thousand years, His Cycle will extend still farther, to at least 500,000 years.

"The Bahá'í cycle is, indeed, incomparable in its greatness. It includes not only the Prophets that will appear after Bahá'u'lláh, but all those who have preceded Him ever since Adam. These should, indeed, be viewed as constituting but preliminary stages leading gradually to the appearance of this supreme Manifestation of God."
(Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 7).

“In the recorded history of mankind there have been only a few such Manifestations of God. They have appeared at intervals of about a thousand years. Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh -- Each has founded a religion for the people of His own age and, like a perfect mirror, has reflected the light of God to them. His words are spoken with the authority of God. Each is the Lord of His age and His teachings, which become the spirit of the age, are promulgated in accordance with the capacity of the people among whom He appears. He releases to the world of humanity spiritual energies designed to advance the human soul in its journey to God” (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha'u'llah v 1, p. 3).

brettz9
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby brettz9 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:20 pm

Yes, you are correct that that quote is only a pilgrim's note, but as I referenced earlier, there are other quotations which do indicate the possibility for thousands of years:

"...the Promised One of Bahá'u'lláh will appear after one thousand or thousands of years."

('Abdu'l-Bahá, cited in Star of the West, vol. 4, No. 14 (November 1913), p. 237-38; in the Compilation on the Covenant, no. 13)


"Ahead lay the thousand or thousands of years in which the potentialities that this creative force has planted in human consciousness will gradually unfold."

(Century of Light, p. 39)


Besides, it should be clear that the period is not always 1000 years anyways since Muhammad appeared several hundred years less than 1000 from the time of Christ.

iranpour
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:15 pm

brettz9 wrote;
Besides, it should be clear that the period is not always 1000 years anyways since Muhammad appeared several hundred years less than 1000 from the time of Christ.

Hello brettz9
I have mentioned in my previous post that as Jesus came to complete the mission of Moses, the duration of these twin Divine Manifestations is about two thousand years, each share about A THOUSAND YEARS.

Ahead lay the thousand or thousands of years in which the potentialities that this creative force has planted in human consciousness will gradually unfold.

The above quote is from the Universal House of Justice who mentions that the splendour and the creative force of the Apostolic Age of the Baha’i Dispensation may take a thousand or thousands of years to unfold and flourish in human consciousness.

I think as the definition of “ABOUT” used by Baha’u’llah in the Book of Certitude: “approximately; nearly; not far from”, “about a thousand years” means what it indicates, but if we take the definition: “Used for referring to a time that is not exact”, the next revelation could be manifested in thousands of years.

HOWEVER, THE SUBJECT IS INDISPUTABLE WHEN WE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING WORDS OF BAHA’U’LLAH AND ‘ABDU’L-BAHA:

“Know ye not that the Hand of God is over your hands, that His irrevocable Decree transcendeth all your devices, that He is supreme over His servants, that He is equal to His Purpose, that He doth what He wisheth, that He shall not be asked of whatever He willeth, that He ordaineth what He pleaseth, that He is the Most Powerful, the Almighty? If ye believe this to be the truth, wherefore, then, will ye not cease from troubling and be at peace with yourselves? (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the WritingsS of Baha'u'llah, p. 223).

"God doeth whatever He wisheth and God doeth whatever he desireth!"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 642).

"He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and commandeth whatever He desireth."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 173).

brettz9
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Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby brettz9 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:04 pm

Yes, that is valid about God doing whatever He willeth, and yes, you are correct about the passage in Century of Light not being absolutely unequivocal (though it would seem strange that they would mention a thousand years specifically if they did not equate this with the length of the Dispensation; also, the passage from 'Abdu'l-Baha in Star of the West DOES seem to be clear on allowing for more time, though even here, compilations from the Research Department do not automatically change the status of a quotation, so without documentation, it is possible that this is only a pilgrim's note too--the compilation does not make clear its status, and it IS permissible for even official compilations to utilize not necessarily authoritative sources such as Promulgation of Universal Peace).

As far as the distance in time between Moses and Jesus, I think that is a little trickier not only because of the uncertainty regarding the time of Moses but because while it is true that Jesus is seen as having come as the Messiah, to fulfill the law (of Moses), etc., there very much appear to have been at least two intervening Hebrew Manifestations of God (though with lesser Revelations), e.g., http://bahai9.com/wiki/Elijah and possibly http://bahai9.com/wiki/Jonah (based on the Arabic Rasul derivatives: http://bahai9.com/wiki/Joseph ). See also http://quran.com/37/123 (Elijah) and http://quran.com/37/139 (Jonah).

I hope it is clear my intention in prolonging the discussion is not to engage in argumentation; I am simply seeking to work together with others to round out an understanding on the subject.

Best wishes,
Brett

iranpour
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:52 pm

Re: where do i find it in the quran...

Postby iranpour » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:52 am

Dear brettz9, Allah’u’Abha!

I enjoyed your post, your links and your views concerning the discussions.

Referring to the Lesser Prophets encouraged me to disclose my problem.
The subject of the Lesser and the Greater Prophets was always a problem for me to differentiate one from the other. Regarding the Lesser Prophets, first in my dictionary I wrote:

Lesser Prophets. (F: Anbiay-i-Tabi’ih). (Re): Promoters of the Greater Prophets. They are not independent.
(B): “They receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit from the light of the Guidance of the Universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself but receives its light from the sun … ”.

Later I made a lot of changes considering some of the writings of ‘Abdu’l-Baha, Who has ranged some of them near to the station of the Greater Prophets and some of the verses of the Qur’an which was referring to some of those prophets as messengers (Mursilin), whom I was thinking as the lesser prophets (Anbia’). I have amended many times the above definition of “the lesser prophets” but still couldn’t find an exact and definite definition for it!


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