Jinn

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choogue
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Jinn

Postby choogue » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:56 am

Hi All,

There is a Surah in the Quran about the Jinn and they are also mentioned in other chapters in the Quran where Allah has directed the Jinn and Mankind.

An example:
17.88 . Say : Verily , though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran , they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another .

What is the Bahai belief regarding the Jinn?

Regards
Abbas

Jonah
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Postby Jonah » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:41 am

I recommend reading the very similar thread "Do baha'is believe in Satan?" at http://bahai-library.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=1202 . Or at least, following some of the links posted there.

-Jonah

choogue
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Postby choogue » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:05 am

Thanks Jonah.

But i think Jinn are different from Satan.

From my understanding, there are good Jinn and bad Jinn. They live among us but we can not see them and some follow the right path and some do not and deny Allah.

So, im wondering if there are any text from the bab or Bahuallah that mention anything about the Jinn?

Regards
Abbas

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:52 am

"Regarding your question as to the meaning of Jin or Genii referred to in the Qur'an, these are not beings or creatures that are actually living, but are symbolic references to the power of men of evil and may be likened to evil spirits. But the point to bear in mind is that these have no positive existence of any kind."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, June 26, 1936: Baha'i News, No. 105, p. 1, February 1937, Lights of Guidance, no. 1667)

Baha'i Warrior
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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:10 pm

Notice how in the Koran it's usually "djinn and men." Men who are evil are djinn, or possessed by djinn. I'm not talking about the Muslim belief, as we don't believe in any Satan or evil spirits. "Djinn" symbolically is the evil in men—man's surrender to his base instincts.

choogue
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Postby choogue » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:18 pm

17.88 . Say : Verily , though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran , they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another .

Oh ok so the Bahai belief is that the above verse refers to mankind as not the "evil" ones and the Jinn as the "evil" mankind. Ok cool. As always, thanks for your answers guys.

Regards
Abbas

Hasan
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Postby Hasan » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:28 am

Without permission, I put this answer from a renowed scholar (so it has to remain anonymous), it may help you:

My personal opinion is that jinn are some kind of people who live the life intensely and is prone to evil.

In Islam Jinn were spirit beings with free will
like humans. We call
them genies in English. They were not necessarily
evil but had an even
greater propensity towards evil than humans.
According to the Qur'an
the Jinn are made from fire,
unlike humanity which was made from clay. It was
for this reason that
Shaytan
(Satan) one of the Jinn refused to bow down and
worship Adam which God
commanded him, saying arrogantly that he was of
pure fire whereas Adam
was made
of clay. It was this sin which caused Satan's
fall. In the Amr va
Khalq, vol.
2, pp 161-164 'Abdu'l-Baha suggests that while
the jinn might
signify be
people who are created with the fire of the love
of God, etc. it can
also
refer to people who reject God's Manifestation
(hence Adam) because
of their haughtiness and arrogance. But there is
another passage,
where He suggests that jinn are those persons
whose belief or denial
is hidden and unknown.

I don't think the passage regarding the evil
whisperer refers to Jinn,
but the Qur'anic verse quoted in the marriage
prayer does.

choogue
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Postby choogue » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:42 am

Thanks Hasan.

My personal opinion is that jinn are some kind of people who live the life intensely and is prone to evil.


I agree with what you say in some sense, but my personal opinion is that there are good Jinn and also bad Jinn, especially after reading the following verse.

[Pickthal 11:119] Save him on whom thy Lord hath mercy; and for that He did create them. And the Word of thy Lord hath been fulfilled: Verily I shall fill hell with the jinn and mankind together.

This basically makes me understand that Hell will be filled with bad Jinn and bad mankind.

Regards
Abbas

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:51 am

'Abdu'l-Baha suggests that while the jinn might signify be people who are created with the fire of the love of God, etc. it can also refer to people who reject God's Manifestation (hence Adam) because of their haughtiness and arrogance.


Interesting. So what do you think, Abbas? Sound like is reasonable interpretation to you?

—Warrior

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Postby FruccalFrilia » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:20 pm

"Regarding your question as to the meaning of Jin or Genii referred to in the Qur'an, these are not beings or creatures that are actually living, but are symbolic references to the power of men of evil and may be likened to evil spirits. But the point to bear in mind is that these have no positive existence of any kind."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual
believer, June 26, 1936: Baha'i News, No. 105, p. 1, February 1937)

The above is the most important
some possible non-authoritative interpretations follow:
Wikipedia says
"Djinn literally means anything which ahas the connotation of concealment, invisibity, seclusion and remoteness."

The Bahai belief that the djinn are spiritual afflictions of the lower nature rather than physical existence fits the definition of concealment and invisibility. Seclusion and remoteness from God are conditions of the soul when it has turned towards the lower nature. and also words used in connotation to djinn.

Other interpretations of the djinn:

According to a hadeeth narrated by 'Aa'ishah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
"The angels were created from light, the jinn were created from fire, and Adam was created from that which has been described to you (soil)." (Reported by Muslim, 5314).

"...a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: Lo! we have heard a marvellous Qur'an,
Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Lord
."
72:2 Pickthall
The djinn were said to be created from smokeless fire and the last verse states that the djinn gave praise to the Lord. One might say, " If the djinn represent the lower nature how could the lower nature give praise to Allah?" The Bahai writings show a way to reconcile this.

"Indeed the hearts of the sincere are consumed in the fire of separation: Where is the gleaming of the light of Thy Countenance, O Beloved of the worlds?"-Fire Tablet authored by Bahauallah

djinn could symbolize sincere believers giving praise to Allah but also consumed in the fire of separation.

abbas you produced a quote which seemed to categorize djinn and mankind separately. Both are portrayed acting against Allah in that verse. Djinn(may metaphorically embody ex-believers/covenant breakers) in this sense.

"And indeed (O Muhammad) individuals of humankind used to invoke the protection of individuals of the jinn, so that they increased them in revolt against Allah);" 72:6 Pickthall

Although I find the literal interpretations of djinn exciting the spiritual and metaphorical meanings provide inspiring insight into spiritual transformation in both history and individual life.

choogue
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Postby choogue » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:19 am

Thanks Argos.

Im not so sure i understand this.

abbas you produced a quote which seemed to categorize djinn and mankind separately. Both are portrayed acting against Allah in that verse. Djinn(may metaphorically embody ex-believers/covenant breakers) in this sense.


If the Jinn in 11:19 who would be punished in Hell is a metaphor for ex-believers/covenant breakers, you are saying that the Mankind who are to be punished in hell are the ones that did not believe at all?
What about the Jinn that wont be punished?

djinn could symbolize sincere believers giving praise to Allah but also consumed in the fire of separation.


This would mean that the Jinn is not a metaphor for ex-believers/covenant breakers.

I dont now. The explanation doesnt seem to sit right with me. Please dont take that as me being ungrateful. I really appreciate your assistance, but the explanations was kinda contradictory.

Regards
Abbas

FruccalFrilia
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Postby FruccalFrilia » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:32 pm

Sorry, I hope I didnt confuse the issue too much with the interpretations.

The interpretations you questioned dont define all djinn. Just perhaps the djinn in specific verses. it is possible the djinn are used to represent and reveal the different spiritual conditions of human beings. djinn do different things in different verses and you even said you think there are good djinn and bad djinn.

If the djinn were produced from a "smokeless fire" and fire in the physical world produces smoke, could this mean that the "smokeless fire" is not physical and the djinn are not physical beings?

May you find the truth in your search and study.

choogue
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Postby choogue » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:53 pm

Yes from what i know of the Jinn, there are good and bad just as there are good and bad humans.

If the djinn were produced from a "smokeless fire" and fire in the physical world produces smoke, could this mean that the "smokeless fire" is not physical and the djinn are not physical beings?


I dont think the Jinn are physical. Jinn are able to take different forms, such as humans, and are able to see us but we cannot see them. They could be sitting right next to you, behind you. Therefore i dont take them as physical beings. Just as Angels are created by light, which doesnt make them physical.

From the verses of the Quran, it implies the Jinn and Men are two different creations. This is again, my view and probably other muslims.

By the way, one of the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad(a.s) informs us that the Jinn flee the house when reciting Surah Al-Baqara. Ill be doing that from now on!! hehe ;)

Regards
Abbas


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