Mason Remey as "Hand of the Cause" on Wikipedia

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Zazaban
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Mason Remey as "Hand of the Cause" on Wikipedia

Postby Zazaban » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:52 am

According to Wikipedia, he is still a Hand of the Cause. That can't be right, wasn't that title revoked?
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:47 pm

Wikipedia isnt exactly the most accurate of websites - anyone (i.e. RANDOM people) is allowed to edit information...

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:46 pm

british_bahai wrote:Wikipedia isnt exactly the most accurate of websites - anyone (i.e. RANDOM people) is allowed to edit information...
I take you don't understand wikipedia very well. I am a regular editor there, and it just doesn't quite work like you see it. YES it is very accurate. Most vandalism and POV is reverted within minutes.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:18 pm

Zazaban wrote:
british_bahai wrote:Wikipedia isnt exactly the most accurate of websites - anyone (i.e. RANDOM people) is allowed to edit information...
I take you don't understand wikipedia very well. I am a regular editor there, and it just doesn't quite work like you see it. YES it is very accurate. Most vandalism and POV is reverted within minutes.

Yeah, i know vandalism is quickly dealt with. When it comes to Bahai topics, though, its not as noticeable. Ive come across a few dodgy pages. There seems to be a few cov.breakers on Wikipedia and they seem pretty persistent because theyve put up a lot of info. Thats what i was getting at.

Sen McGlinn
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Postby Sen McGlinn » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:30 am

I do not think Mason Remey's title as Hand was ever revoked, because when he became a covenant-breaker, the Guardian had already died. If the Hands or the UHJ had the authority to revoke the title, surely they would have the authority to grant it? But they did not (and do not): they have concluded that only the Guardian had the authority to appoint Hands of the Cause. So it would be correct to say that Remey was a Hand of the Cause. He was expelled from the Faith (JULY 26, 1960, see Ministry of the Custodians, p. 223), so perhaps he was a Hand without a Cause?

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:50 pm

british_bahai wrote:
Zazaban wrote:
british_bahai wrote:Wikipedia isnt exactly the most accurate of websites - anyone (i.e. RANDOM people) is allowed to edit information...
I take you don't understand wikipedia very well. I am a regular editor there, and it just doesn't quite work like you see it. YES it is very accurate. Most vandalism and POV is reverted within minutes.

Yeah, i know vandalism is quickly dealt with. When it comes to Bahai topics, though, its not as noticeable. Ive come across a few dodgy pages. There seems to be a few cov.breakers on Wikipedia and they seem pretty persistent because theyve put up a lot of info. Thats what i was getting at.
That also gets revered pretty quickly. My efforts for awhile was concentrated only on Baha'i articles, but then I expanded to all religions. This caused extreme stress, so now I have settled down to just Baha'i and Invader Zim articles.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

tipnum
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Postby tipnum » Sun May 20, 2007 9:04 am

Remey's picture still hangs with the other Hands of the Cause in the Pilgrim House in Haifa. 'Lights of Fortitude" by Barron Harper lists Charles Mason Remey among the Hands of the Cause, but it also tells his sad story.

Who would be able to take away the designation of Hand of the Cause? Since the Universal House of Justice doesn't have the authority to appoints Hands, it also doesn't have the authority to take that designation away.

I think it is important to remember him and what he did.

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:26 am

Sen McGlinn wrote:I do not think Mason Remey's title as Hand was ever revoked, because when he became a covenant-breaker, the Guardian had already died. If the Hands or the UHJ had the authority to revoke the title, surely they would have the authority to grant it? But they did not (and do not): they have concluded that only the Guardian had the authority to appoint Hands of the Cause. So it would be correct to say that Remey was a Hand of the Cause. He was expelled from the Faith (JULY 26, 1960, see Ministry of the Custodians, p. 223), so perhaps he was a Hand without a Cause?

:forbidden2: Sen - what are you referring to???

I have copied and pasted page 223 below (Its just a load of random words...)
Ministry of the Custodians, p. 223 wrote: To All National Spiritual Assemblies, C/O BAHA'I WILMETTE JULY 26, 1960 ENTIRE BODY HANDS OBEDIENT PROVISIONS WILL TESTAMENT CENTRE COVENANT COMMUNICATIONS BELOVED GUARDIAN ENJOINING THEM PROTECT HOLY CAUSE ATTACKS ENEMIES WITHIN WITHOUT ANNOUNCE BAHA'I WORLD MASON REMEY COVENANT BREAKER EXPELLED FAITH STOP ACTION FOLLOWS LONG PERIOD PATIENCE FORBEARANCE OPPORTUNITY GIVEN HIM WITHDRAW SHAMEFUL PRETENSION SACRED STATION GUARDIANSHIP CONSTITUTING HERETICAL CLAIM CONTRARY EXPLICIT PROVISIONS WILL MASTER STOP DESPITE UNIVERSAL REPUDIATION DENUNCIATION BY ALL HANDS INTERNATIONAL BAHA'I COUNCIL ALL NATIONAL ASSEMBLIES REMEY CONTINUING AGITATE UNFOUNDED CLAIM ACTIVELY SEEKING CREATE DIVISION RANKS FAITHFUL SOW SEEDS DOUBT HEARTS BELIEVERS UNDERMINE ACTIVITIES INSTITUTION HANDS CHIEF STEWARDS DEDICATED FULFILMENT BELOVED GUARDIAN'S TEN YEAR PLAN STOP ACCORDANCE INJUNCTION WILL TESTAMENT 'Abdu'l-Baha, CALL UPON FRIENDS EVERYWHERE SHUN REMEY AND ANYONE ASSOCIATING WITH HIM OR ACTIVELY SUPPORTING HIS CLAIMS STOP CONFIDENT COMMUNITY MOST GREAT NAME UNITED WHOLEHEARTED CONDEMNATION THIS LATEST ILL-FATED ATTEMPT DISRUPT GOD's HOLY CAUSE WILL EMERGE TRIUMPHANT STRENGTHENED GALVANIZED ISSUE FORTH WIN REMAINING GOALS GLORIOUS WORLD ENCIRCLING CRUSADE STOP CABLE MESSAGE ALL NATIONAL ASSEMBLIES. [CABLE] HANDSFAITH To All National Spiritual Assemblies, c/o BAHAI WILMETTE AUGUST 3,1960 BELOVED GUARDIAN's GLORIOUS EPISTLE GOD PASSES BY CLEARLY STATES HOLY CAUSE CONSTANTLY SUBJECT CRISES GIVING RISE GREATER VICTORIES STOP HISTORY DEFECTION DISTINGUISHED BELIEVERS FOLLOWING ASCENSION FORERUNNER FAITH SUPREME MANIFESTATION CENTRE COVENANT NOW REPEATED AFTER ASCENSION PRECIOUS SHOGHI Effendi THROUGH MASON REMEY'S DEFECTION HIS PREPOSTEROUS UTTERLY UNFOUNDED CLAIMS STOP PROTECTION BELIEVERS FROM ACTIVITIES MISGUIDED MISCHIEF MAKERS GIVEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY REPENT NOW REQUIRES EXPULSION FAITH REMEY's HENCHMEN JOHN CARRE BERNARD Fillon, MONEER. DARAKHSHAN JOEL MARANGELLA JACQUES SOGHOMONIAN DONALD HARVEY JOHN BYERS IN FRANCE AND MARY WILKIN UNITED STATES STOP HENCEFORTH ANYONE ASSOCIATING THESE PEOPLE OR SUPPORTING REMEY CLAIM LIKEWISE CONSIDERED COVENANT BREAKER STOP CONFIDENT FAITHFUL DEVOTED BODY

(please note- i have not added the caps, that is what it looks like)

Sen McGlinn
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Postby Sen McGlinn » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:25 pm

That's the page. Among the words it says:
JULY 26, 1960 ... ANNOUNCE BAHA'I WORLD MASON REMEY COVENANT BREAKER EXPELLED FAITH STOP

I can't help it -- that is the way it is written

Keyvan
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Postby Keyvan » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:34 pm

if you go to the pilgrim's house in Haifa, they have a picture of all the Hands of the Cause of God in this one room, and even Mason Remey's picture is up there just like everyone else, though beside his name it says "(declared a Covenant Breaker etc etc)

Dorumerosaer
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Postby Dorumerosaer » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:23 pm

This is a sign of the maturity of the Baha'i Faith. Remey's contributions during the time of his faithfulness are acknowledged. Not only is he listed as being among the Hands; there are services he rendered that are still to be fulfilled.
When the competition was taking place for the design of the House of Worship near Chicago, Remey's Temple design was tied with the design submitted by Louis Bourgeois. Remey withdrew his design from consideration, and Abdu'l-Baha was so pleased with this act, that He said that Remey would be the architect for the House of Worship to be built on Mount Carmel. Shoghi Effendi worked with Remey on his design, and it was approved by the Guardian; you can see a model of the design, constructed by Mason Remey, in the upper hallway in the Mansion of Bahji. And since the Master chose the architect, and the Guardian approved the design, when that Mashriqu'l-Adhkar is eventually built on Mount Carmel, it will be Remey's design.
Brent


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