2 topics: aliens/destruction of the BWC areas

All research or scholarship questions
Sen McGlinn
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Sen McGlinn » Wed May 02, 2007 10:17 am

There are masses of rumours and pilgrim's notes claiming the most absurd things: David Piff wrote a dissertation about them, and part of his results are published in Bahai Lore - distributed I think by George Ronald. As a general rule of thumb, if something sounds silly, it is silly

British_Bahai
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Postby British_Bahai » Thu May 03, 2007 2:33 am

i came across this and i thought it was appropriate.
(Source: http://bahai-library.com/uhj/sabeans.etc.html)
(I have added colour so that it is easier when skim-reading.
If any of the moderators think that the formatting could be improved, feel free to edit ;) )

---

3. UFOs, Alien Abduction and Genetic Engineering


Mr. García refers to a book entitled Abduction, written by a Harvard psychiatrist, Dr. John Mack, which posits that

... alien beings of a vastly superior intelligence, who are possibly from other planets or dimensions, or from our own distant future, have been conducting genetic experiments on unwilling humans to produce a crossbreed between humans and aliens (reportedly to repopulate our planet with a more peaceful species after we destroy ourselves).

Mr. García comments on the popularity of this topic and mentions that a number of Bahá'ís claim to have had experiences similar to those associated with abduction by aliens. He requests guidance concerning how to respond to such matters.




The Bahá'í Teachings do not deal specifically with the subjects of alien abduction and genetic engineering. The following extracts concerning unidentified flying objects might be of assistance to Mr. García:

There is nothing in the Teachings about spaceships; and the Guardian does not feel this is a subject on which he can offer the friends any advice whatsoever. Indeed, to be frank, he is so busy with the work of the Cause that he seldom has time to devote much thought to speculation of this nature, however fascinating it may be.

(From a letter dated 15 February 1957 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to several believers)




As you rightly state, Bahá'u'll'áh affirms that every fixed star has its planets, and every planet its own creatures. The House of Justice states however, that it has not discovered anything in the Bahá'í Writings which would indicate the degree of progress such creatures may have attained. Obviously, as creatures of earth have managed to construct space probes and send them into outer space, it can be believed that creatures on other planets may have succeeded in doing likewise.

Regarding the attitude Bahá'ís should take toward unidentified flying objects, the House of Justice points out that they fall in the category of subjects open to scientific investigation, and as such, may be of interest to some, but not necessarily to everyone. In any case, Bahá'ís have a fundamental obligation at this stage of the development of the earth's people, that is, the responsibility of spreading the unifying Message of Bahá'u'll'áh.

(From a letter dated 11 January 1982 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

British_Bahai
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Postby British_Bahai » Thu May 03, 2007 2:43 am

In my first post (see above) I didnt want to add any underlines or bolden any part of the paragraph because that would just be my own opinion of what is the most important sentence. But I do think that we should note the following:

british_bahai wrote: There is nothing in the Teachings about spaceships; and the Guardian does not feel this is a subject on which he can offer the friends any advice whatsoever. Indeed, to be frank, he is so busy with the work of the Cause that he seldom has time to devote much thought to speculation of this nature, however fascinating it may be.

(From a letter dated 15 February 1957 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to several believers)


This indicates that if there *was* something in the Baha'i writings regarding this topic, Shoghi Effendi would have obviously come across it and would have drawn our attention to it.

british_bahai wrote: As you rightly state, Bahá'u'll'áh affirms that every fixed star has its planets, and every planet its own creatures. The House of Justice states however, that it has not discovered anything in the Bahá'í Writings which would indicate the degree of progress such creatures may have attained. Obviously, as creatures of earth have managed to construct space probes and send them into outer space, it can be believed that creatures on other planets may have succeeded in doing likewise.

Regarding the attitude Bahá'ís should take toward unidentified flying objects, the House of Justice points out that they fall in the category of subjects open to scientific investigation, and as such, may be of interest to some, but not necessarily to everyone. In any case, Bahá'ís have a fundamental obligation at this stage of the development of the earth's people, that is, the responsibility of spreading the unifying Message of Bahá'u'll'áh.

(From a letter dated 11 January 1982 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)
I think it is wiser for us to take heed of the more solid facts (i.e. letters on behalf of Shoghi effendi stating that there is nothing in the writings about spaceships) rather than focusing our attention on obscure pilgrim's notes.

....dgk_p19: I know this doesnt fully answer your question, but hope that it has at least made things a bit clearer...

Sen McGlinn
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Sen McGlinn » Thu May 03, 2007 4:08 am

dgk_p19 wrote:well, I wouldn't say the destruction of parts of Israel sound all that silly given the current world conditions.


Ah yes .. but what is supposed in this story is that Baha'u'llah was talking to one of his contemporaries about the steps (which did not exist then) and said they would be destroyed ....

In Baha'u'llah's lifetime, Haifa was a miserable village of a few thousand inhabitants. When Baha'u'llah stayed there, he pitched a tent. And "all this" - all he could see then - has since been destroyed, except for the templar houses which are built of stone.

Zazaban
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:16 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Zazaban » Thu May 03, 2007 6:39 pm

I'd like to see these silly pilgrim's notes, they sound like a hoot :-P
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh

British_Bahai
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Postby British_Bahai » Sun May 13, 2007 4:35 pm

dgk_p19: are u talking to me?

Sen McGlinn
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Sen McGlinn » Mon May 14, 2007 3:37 am

This is another example of the unnecessary confusion and agitation that the Bahais put themselves through by putting reliance on pilgrim's notes and hearsay. Such a bitter and uncharaitable and pessimistic sentiment could never have come from the lips of Shoghi Effendi: it tells us about the mental condition of the people who make up these 'reports.'

Here, for example, is the genuine Shoghi Effendi speaking:

Deplore loss of much-loved, greatly admired Juliet Thompson, outstanding, exemplary handmaid of 'Abdu'l-Bahá. Over half-century record of manifold, meritorious services, embracing the concluding years of Heroic and opening decades of Formative Ages of Bahá'í Dispensation, won her enviable position in the glorious company of triumphant disciples of the beloved Master in the Abha Kingdom. Advise hold memorial gathering in Mashriqu'l-Adhkar to pay befitting tribute to the imperishable memory of one so wholly consecrated to the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, and fired with such consuming devotion to the Center of His Covenant.
(December 6, 1956, Citadel of Faith, p. 170)

Sen McGlinn
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Sen McGlinn » Mon May 14, 2007 1:43 pm

It may be this, in the Suriy-ye Haykal:

"O Maid of inner meanings! Step out of the chamber of utterance by the leave of God, the Lord of the heavens and the earth. Reveal, then, thyself adorned with the raiment of the celestial Realm, and proffer with thy ruby fingers the wine of the heavenly Dominion, ...
Grieve not if none be found to accept the crimson wine proffered by Thy snow-white hand and to seize it in the name of Thy Lord ... Leave this people unto themselves, and repair unto the Tabernacle of majesty and glory, wherein Thou shalt encounter a people whose faces shine as brightly as the sun in its noontide splendour, and who praise and extol their Lord
(Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 12)


61. O SON OF MAN!
A dewdrop out of the fathomless ocean of My mercy I have shed upon the peoples of the world, yet found none turn thereunto, inasmuch as every one hath turned away from the celestial wine of unity unto the foul dregs of impurity, and, content with mortal cup, hath put away the chalice of immortal beauty. Vile is that wherewith he is contented.
(Persian Hidden Words)

brettz9
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Postby brettz9 » Wed May 16, 2007 2:09 pm

Hi all,

I might just chime in that we could also emphasize the passage differently here:

"Regarding the attitude Bahá'ís should take toward unidentified flying objects, the House of Justice points out that they fall in the category of subjects open to scientific investigation, and as such, may be of interest to some,..."

While I think we should not have difficulty in finding what the main thrust of the passage is saying (focus on the work of the Faith), and if this were becoming an interminable discussion maybe it would be more appropriate to emphasize that part, I find we really have to very carefully read the passage and play "God's advocate" (since differences are of God, not the "Devil" and lead us to an understanding which conduces to the most unity) for the nuance that it holds.

Brett


Return to “Discussion”