I'm not a Baha'i, and at this point in my life I don't see myself as converting. I'm allegedly a Christian at the moment but I really don't know where I am spirtually. My question is what is the Baha'i teaching on Christianity's Unforgiveable Sin (Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit)? The response of the Catholic Church (more info hereto this isn't working for me, as I don't believe in there being only one true religion.
I'd love some help,
Joel
Baha'i and the Unforgivable Sin
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Kurt Kawohl
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- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:54 am
- Location: California, USA
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Greetings Joel,
Many sayings attributed to Jesus were the interpretations of his followers and were written many years after Jesus's death.
Since "sin" is the creation of man, there is no such thing as sinning against the Holy Spirit. God does not judge man; man alone is responsible for the survival of his soul.
Incorrect Analysis by Paul.
The apostle Paul said: "And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."
-1 Corinthians 15:14-19
1. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
(A) Jesus spirit has risen to God and is now a part of God. Our faith is reinforced.
2. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise.
(A) The dead do not rise; this is a scientific fact. The mind is gullible. Perceptions often trick the mind into believing visual events have taken place when this is not necessarily so. Mass hypnosis is a common occurrence. One testifies what one has visualized. This does not constitute a false witness before man or God.
3. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
(A) Jesus has been appropriately called the "Son of God" and "Prince of Peace". We are often reminded of the teachings of Jesus whose words have survived two millennia. His disciples kept him alive in the memories of all who heard and believed his words. They, as well as other "Men of God" who contributed to the compilation of the scriptures of the Bible, were inspired by God to give us guidelines to live by.
Faith is never futile. Sins were invented by man.
4. Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."
(A) Those who have fallen asleep (died) with a clear conscience, their spirit, they are now with Jesus and God. Hope is never pitiable.
Sorry, but dead men rising by supernatural means is inconsistent with science and science can prove the nonexistence of the supernatural in the physical existence.
It is true that under philosophic naturalism, physical events are the only events and what we observe physically are the only physical things that exist. Under philosophical naturalism there may be no such thing as the immaterial soul because the soul is not physical and exists in the spiritual dimension, yet it is within a space contained within the physical body, the mind. If we represent thought and emotion which is not physical, as existing in space, we must then accept also the existence of another, a fourth dimension where these processes thrive. Our Mind, Thought, Truth, Intuition, Intelligence, Appreciation and Awareness are all aspects of another dimension. The fourth dimension is often referred to as time but this is also widely disputed and also considered by many as the spiritual dimension. The spiritual dimension or God may indirectly have an effect on our mind or body via our spirit, but it never has and never will "directly" effect anything in the physical universe.
I do not dispute or doubt that many people had their spirit interacted with the spirit of Jesus after his physical death and that they thereby visualized or envisioned his physical appearance and departure from earth. The profound effect that such an experience has on the mind is mind-boggling.
Kurt Kawohl
http://transcendentalists.org
Many sayings attributed to Jesus were the interpretations of his followers and were written many years after Jesus's death.
Since "sin" is the creation of man, there is no such thing as sinning against the Holy Spirit. God does not judge man; man alone is responsible for the survival of his soul.
Incorrect Analysis by Paul.
The apostle Paul said: "And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."
-1 Corinthians 15:14-19
1. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
(A) Jesus spirit has risen to God and is now a part of God. Our faith is reinforced.
2. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise.
(A) The dead do not rise; this is a scientific fact. The mind is gullible. Perceptions often trick the mind into believing visual events have taken place when this is not necessarily so. Mass hypnosis is a common occurrence. One testifies what one has visualized. This does not constitute a false witness before man or God.
3. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
(A) Jesus has been appropriately called the "Son of God" and "Prince of Peace". We are often reminded of the teachings of Jesus whose words have survived two millennia. His disciples kept him alive in the memories of all who heard and believed his words. They, as well as other "Men of God" who contributed to the compilation of the scriptures of the Bible, were inspired by God to give us guidelines to live by.
Faith is never futile. Sins were invented by man.
4. Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."
(A) Those who have fallen asleep (died) with a clear conscience, their spirit, they are now with Jesus and God. Hope is never pitiable.
Sorry, but dead men rising by supernatural means is inconsistent with science and science can prove the nonexistence of the supernatural in the physical existence.
It is true that under philosophic naturalism, physical events are the only events and what we observe physically are the only physical things that exist. Under philosophical naturalism there may be no such thing as the immaterial soul because the soul is not physical and exists in the spiritual dimension, yet it is within a space contained within the physical body, the mind. If we represent thought and emotion which is not physical, as existing in space, we must then accept also the existence of another, a fourth dimension where these processes thrive. Our Mind, Thought, Truth, Intuition, Intelligence, Appreciation and Awareness are all aspects of another dimension. The fourth dimension is often referred to as time but this is also widely disputed and also considered by many as the spiritual dimension. The spiritual dimension or God may indirectly have an effect on our mind or body via our spirit, but it never has and never will "directly" effect anything in the physical universe.
I do not dispute or doubt that many people had their spirit interacted with the spirit of Jesus after his physical death and that they thereby visualized or envisioned his physical appearance and departure from earth. The profound effect that such an experience has on the mind is mind-boggling.
Kurt Kawohl
http://transcendentalists.org
"I Am A Transcendentalist"
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Guest
Dear Seeker, the Baha'i explanation on "Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is that it is the act of Covenant Breaking, which is essentially the act of recognizing the station of the Manifestation, but actively revolting against Him. Christ said he could forgive any sin and that He could even forgive those who would harm Him because He was the channel for God's divine mercy, but one cannot be forgiven for breaking the Covenant because, through this action, they completely sever themselves from the channel of God's mercy. For more information on Baha'i definitions of terms such as Holy Spirit and other Christian topics "Some Answered Questions", which can be viewed here is a great resource.
Dear Joel,
Welcome!
The official Baha'i position on a subject is not answered by individual opinions, and we do not have any kind of clergy, so we encourage you to investigate the Bahá'í Writings themselves.
As far as your question, as mentioned by one of the "guests", 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Son and appointed Interpreter of the Bahá'í Writings after the ascension of Bahá'u'lláh, the Prophet-Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, gives a brief description of this topic at http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/a ... aq/31.html
It may be that the term "unforgivable" is a relative term (such as the Biblical statements of the Jewish festivals continuing forever), including 'Abdu'l-Bahá's usage. At least one unauthenticated Bahá'í reference states that sinning souls will eventually return to God, and it is stated in authentic text that God's mercy (including via our accepted prayers and benevolent actions in this world) can assist those to progress in the next world.
This use of the method of "exaggerated emphasis" as our interpretive writings have called it, in referring to heaven and hell (or other items) in absolute terms, are intended to have a moral effect in reforming humanity's character by drawing attention to their seriousness. But because these terms are relative does not mean that this is watering down the idea to nothing; we believe that there are in fact quite serious consequences (or rewards) experienced in the next world (and sometimes in this one) which in addition to being the case, can serve as motivators for people (though they are, our Writings assure, not really ideal motives to be preoccupied with, as our motive should be the love of God alone). But it is not as bleakly (or blissfully) cut-and-dried as some people would have it. Actually if it were, our Writings argue that their moral effects would be diluted (such as some Christians who interpret the Bible as meaning that a person just needs to say they believe in Christ and that they are saved without any corresponding need for effort on their part).
Brett
Welcome!
The official Baha'i position on a subject is not answered by individual opinions, and we do not have any kind of clergy, so we encourage you to investigate the Bahá'í Writings themselves.
As far as your question, as mentioned by one of the "guests", 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Son and appointed Interpreter of the Bahá'í Writings after the ascension of Bahá'u'lláh, the Prophet-Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, gives a brief description of this topic at http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/a ... aq/31.html
It may be that the term "unforgivable" is a relative term (such as the Biblical statements of the Jewish festivals continuing forever), including 'Abdu'l-Bahá's usage. At least one unauthenticated Bahá'í reference states that sinning souls will eventually return to God, and it is stated in authentic text that God's mercy (including via our accepted prayers and benevolent actions in this world) can assist those to progress in the next world.
This use of the method of "exaggerated emphasis" as our interpretive writings have called it, in referring to heaven and hell (or other items) in absolute terms, are intended to have a moral effect in reforming humanity's character by drawing attention to their seriousness. But because these terms are relative does not mean that this is watering down the idea to nothing; we believe that there are in fact quite serious consequences (or rewards) experienced in the next world (and sometimes in this one) which in addition to being the case, can serve as motivators for people (though they are, our Writings assure, not really ideal motives to be preoccupied with, as our motive should be the love of God alone). But it is not as bleakly (or blissfully) cut-and-dried as some people would have it. Actually if it were, our Writings argue that their moral effects would be diluted (such as some Christians who interpret the Bible as meaning that a person just needs to say they believe in Christ and that they are saved without any corresponding need for effort on their part).
Brett
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Anna
Re: Baha'i and the Unforgivable Sin
Abdu'l-Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah, answered to this very question. Have a look into that chapter :
http://www.manvell.org.uk/fragrant/saq/saq31.html
The best,
Anna
http://www.manvell.org.uk/fragrant/saq/saq31.html
The best,
Anna
Seeker wrote:I'm not a Baha'i, and at this point in my life I don't see myself as converting. I'm allegedly a Christian at the moment but I really don't know where I am spirtually. My question is what is the Baha'i teaching on Christianity's Unforgiveable Sin (Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit)? The response of the Catholic Church (more info hereto this isn't working for me, as I don't believe in there being only one true religion.
I'd love some help,
Joel
-
Dorumerosaer
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:15 am
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
The unforgivable sin is not unforgivable because it is such a terrible deed. It is unforgivable because the nature of the deed or condition is such that it puts the person's soul in a state where it does not desire forgiveness; where reconciliation to God is not desired.
Clearly the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is not Covenant-breaking. Covenant-breaking is definitely forgivable, and has been forgiven many, many times in the history of the Baha'i Faith.
For example, Baha'u'llah offers to forgive his brother Mirza Yahya, who broke the Covenant, if he will turn to God and repent:
. . .in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, a forgiving Lord assures this same brother, this "source of perversion," "from whose own soul the winds of passion had risen and blown upon him," to "fear not because of thy deeds," bids him "return unto God, humble, submissive and lowly," and affirms that "He will put away from thee thy sins," and that "thy Lord is the Forgiving, the Mighty, the All-Merciful." (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 170)
A Baha'i named Sidney Sprague broke the Covenant, then repented and asked to be re-admitted to the Cause. He remained a faithful Baha'i for the rest of his life, and won praise from the pen of Shoghi Effendi. The Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:
. . . there is absolutely nothing keeping those who have broken the Covenant, whether Bahá'u'lláh's or the Master's, out of the Cause of God except their own inner spiritually sick condition. If they were sound, instead of diseased, and wanted to enter the service of our Faith, they would apply direct to the Guardian, and he would be able to adjudge of their sincerity and, if sincere, would welcome them into the ranks of the faithful as he did with Sydney Sprague. (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 188)
Mirza Yahya's son and designated successor renounced his father's claim, and returned to the Covenant. He is buried in the Baha'i Cemetery on Mount Carmel, and in Persian this is explained on his tombstone. It is one of the first graves in the Baha'i cemetery, as you enter the gate.
Rather, as the Master explains in Some Answered Questions, the person in this condition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit "hates the light" i.e. hates the spirit of God that is available to him. It is not a deed that is so vile that it is beyond God's forgiveness. It is a condition in which -- like a sick person who hates human touch, or food -- the spiritually sick soul hates health.
It is not a very common thing, and I have never heard of anyplace in Baha'i literature where anyone has been identified has having this condition.
Pilgrimbrent
Clearly the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is not Covenant-breaking. Covenant-breaking is definitely forgivable, and has been forgiven many, many times in the history of the Baha'i Faith.
For example, Baha'u'llah offers to forgive his brother Mirza Yahya, who broke the Covenant, if he will turn to God and repent:
. . .in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, a forgiving Lord assures this same brother, this "source of perversion," "from whose own soul the winds of passion had risen and blown upon him," to "fear not because of thy deeds," bids him "return unto God, humble, submissive and lowly," and affirms that "He will put away from thee thy sins," and that "thy Lord is the Forgiving, the Mighty, the All-Merciful." (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 170)
A Baha'i named Sidney Sprague broke the Covenant, then repented and asked to be re-admitted to the Cause. He remained a faithful Baha'i for the rest of his life, and won praise from the pen of Shoghi Effendi. The Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:
. . . there is absolutely nothing keeping those who have broken the Covenant, whether Bahá'u'lláh's or the Master's, out of the Cause of God except their own inner spiritually sick condition. If they were sound, instead of diseased, and wanted to enter the service of our Faith, they would apply direct to the Guardian, and he would be able to adjudge of their sincerity and, if sincere, would welcome them into the ranks of the faithful as he did with Sydney Sprague. (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 188)
Mirza Yahya's son and designated successor renounced his father's claim, and returned to the Covenant. He is buried in the Baha'i Cemetery on Mount Carmel, and in Persian this is explained on his tombstone. It is one of the first graves in the Baha'i cemetery, as you enter the gate.
Rather, as the Master explains in Some Answered Questions, the person in this condition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit "hates the light" i.e. hates the spirit of God that is available to him. It is not a deed that is so vile that it is beyond God's forgiveness. It is a condition in which -- like a sick person who hates human touch, or food -- the spiritually sick soul hates health.
It is not a very common thing, and I have never heard of anyplace in Baha'i literature where anyone has been identified has having this condition.
Pilgrimbrent