Direct path to God?

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Pilosofia
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Direct path to God?

Postby Pilosofia » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:43 pm

Can an individual discover for themself the way to God without
Jesus or Baha'u'llah ? think about it before answering. :roll:

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:02 am

This is like "reason" vs. "revelation," isn't it? In Catholic Thomistic theology we are supposed to be able to know at least the existence of God through both methods. I believe the Shaykhyi leaned more to the side of revelation, but they might have combined them.

In cold reality, reason can no more demonstrate the existence of God than it can tell us which religion, if any, is true. While a number of religions claim "proofs" for themselves, these are obviously not persuasive to those who are not already inclined toward belief, and seem to be based on varieties of special pleading. An example would be older Baha'i writings which emphasized the year 1844 as the supposed fulfillment of prophecies in the Book of Daniel.

On the other hand, revelation comes with its own special set of problems. One is that for most of us, we receive the revelation in the form of lore which our culture or religion passes down to us. This may or may not be reliable, and on reflection, we can see that it resembles many other religious forms which cannot all be true. For those of us who feel we have spiritual experiences of some sort (personal revelation, basically), a similar problem arises in that every conceivable religion has people with similar experiences. So we cannot have confidence in our ability to peer beyond our human blindness.

Guest

Re: Direct path to God?

Postby Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:36 pm

Dear Pilosofia,

Hello. I have just one question in response
to your post...

Do you recognize Jesus & Baha'u'llah
as Manifestations of the Almighty Creator?

If so, why would you have any desire
at all to choose yourself, with limited
knowledge & abilities, to Guide you to God?


I kindly pray, dear pilosofia, for you to recognize
your Creator. And humbly say to you - please
do not say such
things contrary to Him, but to show the
utmost Gratitude to Him for His generosity
of sending Jesus & Baha'u'llah to guide us.

God Bless.

Pilosofia
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:08 am
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Postby Pilosofia » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:28 pm

Dear Guest:(second)

Thank you kindly for your reply and your appeal is appreciate.
Please read the reply made to the first guest for further explanation. :)

Pilosofia
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:08 am
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First Guest

Postby Pilosofia » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:45 pm

Thank you for your insight, and your thoughts are understood.

There are countless of human souls who claim knowledge and
access directly to God, I can name many but choose not to.
New age awareness has given birth to many interesting opinons
and concepts, the idea occured to me that perhaps we need to
look into this otherwise how will we answer when asked?

How will we answer those who claim direct path to God, remembering
at the same time they too are human souls worthy of an honest
answer if we know how to correctly reply. :)

Pilosofia
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:08 am
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further thoughts

Postby Pilosofia » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:15 pm

To begin with this discussion will start with the Bible Matthew 16:13-16
Jesus talking: "Who do men say that I , the Son of man, am? and
they said, Some say John the Bapist; some Elijah; and others,
Jeremiah,or one of the prophets. He saith unto them,But who say
ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the
Christ, the Son of the living God."
By this most profound statement it is noticed that Peter knew who
Jesus Christ is. Who would like to find other statements from
the Writings about Baha'u'llah starting with the Letters of the Living.
Any takers? There are many dear friends.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:39 am

How will we answer those who claim direct path to God, remembering at the same time they too are human souls worthy of an honest answer if we know how to correctly reply.


It seems to me that skepticism is an honest answer. In fact it seems perverse of God to expect us to somehow "see" through the myriad religious possibilities in order to choose the person or path which he favors. If God is to avoid this, then someone with a claim ought to be able to give good reasons for accepting it. This means the onus ought to be on them.

Why would Christ praise Peter? Because he leapt to a conclusion? (That seems hardly praiseworthy.) Because he could "see" light that others could not? (But from where did this ability come, and why should he receive praise for it?)

As I recall, none of the Letters of the Living had anything to do with Baha'u'llah's claims, which did not start until 1863 or 1866. I realize that a few Baha'i writings (Stockman for example) try to claim Tahirih as a Baha'i but this is based on a willfully anachronistic misinterpretation of references to the "Glory of God" in her writings. In fact, you would have more material if you wanted to examine the surviving Letters' attitude toward Subh-i-Azal.

Pilosofia
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:08 am
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reply to third Guest?

Postby Pilosofia » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:46 pm

I do appreciate your response and thank you for it.
But I have to disagree with your personal view. :D

Also to mention one point you missed,Peter's conviction
according to you was "jumping to conclusion" you can
of course see it that way which I do not see like that.
Have a nice day.
:roll:

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:54 am

PS Sorry--not Stockman. Hatcher, in his Tahirih poetry translation.

I can think of a couple other "faith" models for you, which you may or may not be interested in. One of them would be based on "vibrations" (pardon the New Age-ism), so that whenever we come into contact with God / the truth / etc., the corresponding virtues "vibrate" within us, confirming our intuition.

Another would be a pragmatic model, in which as we "take one step towards God," and see how it goes, God will "take two steps toward us," and guide us further.

Pilosofia
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:08 am
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Humanities Progress?

Postby Pilosofia » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:55 am

One main problem on written discourse is understanding the spirit of
the message from the writer. Often slight misconception on what is read
leads to areas that were not intended. This is evident with many posts
and even with my own posts. There is a need for tolerance in what is
being read or wrtten in a spirit of goodwill and understanding.
To my thinking and I realize it may be misunderstood and that I may not
express it correctly is that human souls need the spiritual direction from
the true prophets of God (i.e.Jesus,Baha'u'llah,etc.) as the Teachers for
mankind's advancement. I do not believe human beings have the capacity
for direct path to God without assistance from Jesus or Baha'u'llah in a
manner of speaking. Further I sincerely believe most of humanity really
do not understand the significance of the true Prophets other then just
worshipping them,it goes much further beyond that. There are things
in this creation which prompt and cause human souls to reflect and
ponder on the purpose of life, after all the evidence of a Creator shouts
out to humanity from creation itself (if I may say it like that) that there
are countless infinite hidden mysteries unexhaustible ! Suppose for the
moment a human being suddenly appeared that was several millions years old with perfect memory (we are just supposing) could we learn
from someone like that? about how things were and thousands of questions even scientist would love to know? Just imagine what could
be learned from Baha'u'llah on humanities spiritual and material progress?


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