95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

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BritishBahai
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95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby BritishBahai » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:39 am

Does anyone know if the 95-day rule also applies to half-persians aswell, or is it strictly for full persians?

Also, what is the significance of this? Why does it only apply to persian people?

Ive always wanted to know the answer to this but ive just been too lazy to ask
thanks
"I have desired only what Thou didst desire, and love only what Thou dost love"

surajchew
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby surajchew » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:46 pm

Perhaps this guidance from the House may help:

Concerning the question as to how the term "Persian believer" should be defined in applying this law, you should be guided as follows. The law applies to Persian believers wherever they have established residence after leaving Iran. In cases where children born to such parents are brought up in the Persian tradition, speak Persian, and are thoroughly conversant with the laws of the Kitábi-Aqdas, they will obviously feel an obligation, and should be assisted, to observe this law as circumstances permit.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated January 6, 1987, to a National Spiritual Assembly (Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities)


Key criteria seems to be: "brought up in the Persian tradition, speak Persian, and are thoroughly conversant with the laws of the Kitábi-Aqdas."

Also, this one:

The law requiring Bahá'ís to be married within the 95-day period following an engagement is not yet applicable in the West. However, Persians residing in the West obey such laws as a matter of conscience.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated July 14, 1965, to a National Spiritual Assembly (Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities)

Susan
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby Susan » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:05 pm

Note the references to following this law as a "matter of conscience" and as "circumstances permit." It sounds to me like while they want Persians in the West to follow this law it is not enforced by the institutions.

brettz9
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby brettz9 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:22 pm

There was also another thread on this question at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1997

As far as why there is the law, Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities has answers to this and other social/community questions:

Concerning the question of marriage and the stipulated period between the time of the engagement and the marriage, this is the decisive text of the Book of God and may not be interpreted. In the past, serious difficulties and problems arose when a long period of time elapsed between the engagement and the marriage. Now according to the Text of the Book, when marriage between the parties is arranged, i.e. when the parties become engaged, and it is certain that they will be married, not more than ninety-five days should elapse before the marriage takes place. . . .
'Abdu'l-Bahá, quoted in a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, dated April 11, 1982, to a National Spiritual Assembly


The Baha'i Writings say that individuals should take time getting to know each other's character. But once that is known, there is little reason to linger around. Indeed, I think one may find many cases of spouses (often women) being strung around with the promise of marriage and does not lead to their security. There is also no doubt a greater temptation to violate the law of chastity with a longer period of time.

As to why the law is applied differently in the West and in Iran, the notion of progressive revelation does not only hold true across time, but also across region. Due to the present standards in the West, it may be too great a burden to enforce this law there at present:

The Iranian believers residing in western countries . . . should not require the western Bahá'ís to be bound by the same laws as are applicable to themselves, nor should they expect more of them than the pen of the beloved Guardian prescribed for them for this period.
The Universal House of Justice, July 7, 1968

Keyvan
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby Keyvan » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:53 pm

i can understand the puzzlement.

the underlying concept here is that there are certain laws that have been applied in Iran as the faith has been a large developed community there more than any other antion, and not yet in the west. Huquq'u'llah for one thing wasn't applied universally until the 90's.

it has nothing to do with ethnicity - rather what community they are coming from, either directly or by direct extension.

Abu Talib
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby Abu Talib » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:16 am

I don't have that much knowledge about the Baha'i Faith, can someone please explain what this rule is? and as much info about it as possible? Thank you.
The Holy Prophet (saww) said, "O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa, but there will be no prophet after me."

slava_sz
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby slava_sz » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:30 am

This law stipulates that the time between the engagement and the marriage should not exceed 95 days.
Basically it is aimed at practices in certain societies where such time could be extremely long (years), to the extent that it undermines the purpose of the engagement as the announcement of the coming wedding. (I would personally keep it as short as need for the wedding ceremony preparation, a month, at most).
There is one more law related to time and marriage: all ceremonies, religious and civil as well as consummation of marriage should be within 24 hours. Again it concerns those who take it to the extreme, while the purpose of marriage to unite two souls and bodies.

onepence~2
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby onepence~2 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:18 am

slava_sz wrote: ...
There is one more law related to time: all ceremonies, religious and civil as well as the physical contact should be within 24 hours. ...

*smile* .... this makes sense ... yet ... we would like source documentation

thanks

Abu Talib
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby Abu Talib » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:42 am

What does being persian have to do with this law?
The Holy Prophet (saww) said, "O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa, but there will be no prophet after me."

onepence~2
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby onepence~2 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:54 am

Abu Talib wrote:What does being persian have to do with this law?


it is only in the current application of this Law that being Persian has any significance.

However ... on a personal note ... we would like to think that the next Manifestations will be
"brought up in the Persian tradition, speak Persian, and are thoroughly conversant with the laws of the Kitábi-Aqdas"

*smile*

slava_sz
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:22 am

Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby slava_sz » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am

Consummation of Marriage Must Take Place Within Twenty-Four Hours of Bahá'í Marriage Ceremony
http://bahai-library.com/index.php5?fil ... er=2#n1300

Whether it applies to Persian or Iranian Baha'is (or even non-Baha'i) observing it will only help such person :D .

onepence~2
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby onepence~2 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:38 am

"There is one more law related to time and marriage" would be a more precise phrase ...

so ... thank you for adding to our knowledge

brettz9
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Re: 95-day engagement rule also applies to half-persians?

Postby brettz9 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:16 am

Hi all,

The source of the law on 95 days is in the Questions and Answers to the Kitab-i-Aqdas:

43. QUESTION: Concerning the betrothal of a girl before maturity.

ANSWER: This practice hath been pronounced unlawful by the Source of Authority, and it is unlawful to announce a marriage earlier than ninety-five days before the wedding.

(Baha'u'llah, Kitab-i-Aqdas, Question 43)


The issue is that the laws are applied progressively even within the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, according to the readiness of the people at a given time and place.

You may be interested to see:

http://bahai-library.com/file.php5?file ... ot_binding

which details the laws not yet binding on Western believers. (Of course, Eastern believers are not only Persians.)

As far as consummation of the marriage, we should also point out this:

The consummation of marriage by a couple is, as you aptly state, an intimate and private matter outside the scrutiny of others. While consummation normally implies a sexual relationship, the Bahá'í law requiring consummation to take place within twenty-four hours of the ceremony can be considered as fulfilled if the couple has commenced cohabitation with the intention of setting up the family relationship.

(Letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, dated July 28, 1978, to a National Spiritual Assembly)


best wishes,
Brett


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