Some questions about the faith

All research or scholarship questions
TheCatLady
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:51 am

Some questions about the faith

Postby TheCatLady » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:12 am

Hi all, I am quite new to the faith, and I have not declared yet. I have a lot of questions I need answered, and I’m sure I’ll think of more later, but this is what I have thought of right now! So, please help!

A) Why are women not allowed to be elected into the Universal House of Justice?

B) I have read a blog where the person had pulled quotes from Abdu’l-Baha saying things against Evolution. So, is it wrong for me to believe in Evolution, even though I feel that it can make perfect sense with this religion?? What do Baha’is believe?

C) What steps should I take being new to this? I already know the community, and have gone to one Fireside, but am too afraid to talk just yet. I also have a bunch of the Holy texts on my computer, and in my bookshelf- but there are so much, I am so overwhelmed as to where to start! Any ideas how I should do this??

D) I do have a real problem with backbiting, as in my work environment everyone does it to each other. I really really feel horrible about it, and I want to stop, but I don’t know how as it’s a pretty ingrained habit, especially with co-workers I don’t exactly like. How can I break myself of that?

E) Voting wise, it is okay that I vote, right? As long as I don’t put bumper stickers on my car and signs in my yard and run around like an idiot telling everyone who I’m voting for? I do relate as an independent, so I am trying not partisan… am I doing this right?

And that’s all I can think of right now, but if you can give any advice to a newbie I would greatly appreciate it. From everything I have learned and am continuing to learn I am just completely in love with everything, and I know that this is the path I want to take, I just have so many questions and need some direction to take on this. I am so happy that this faith is in my life!

coatofmanycolours
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:03 pm

"Why are women not allowed to be elected into the Universal House of Justice?"

hi CatLady; Baha'u'llah said that the Universal House of Justice would be
made up of men. He didn't say why. Abdu'l-Baha said that the reason
would become clear in the future. I know that His reason is a good one
and so I accept it as having a wisdom.

When you think about it, of the roughly 270,000 elected positions in
which a person can serve, only a mere 269,991 are open to women.
That is only 99.99 % of elected positions open to women. I wonder how
that compares to the world at large.

-Peter

coatofmanycolours
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:50 pm

"So, is it wrong for me to believe in Evolution, even though I feel that it can
make perfect sense with this religion?? What do Baha’is believe?"

hi again CatLady; I can say what I believe. I just can't say what all Baha'is believe
because I haven't had a chance to ask each one of them.

I believe that all species go through changes to adjust to their environment.
These gradual changes over the centuries are called 'evolution'.

A separate question to this idea of gradual change is "What is the ultimate origin
of each species?"

Another question is "What is the ultimate origin of the universe or universes?"

Of course the former question cannot be answered without solving the latter question.

The question of the ultimate origin of a species remains unanswered, yet, we can still
be certain that species do indeed undergo changes in adaptation to the environment.

My reading of the words of Abdu'l-Baha are that He acknowledges the principle that
species go through changes. He also comments on the origin of species, a
separate question:

"Let us return to our subject that man, in the beginning of his existence and in
the womb of the earth, like the embryo in the womb of the mother, gradually
grew and developed, and passed from one form to another, from one shape
to another, until he appeared with this beauty and perfection, this force and
this power. It is certain that in the beginning he had not this loveliness and grace
and elegance, and that he only by degrees attained this shape, this form, this
beauty and this grace..."
-Some Answered Questions p. 183

He also says:

"Man was always a distinct species..."
-Some Answered Questions p. 184

To understand this, I read His explanation of the 'Five Aspects of Spirit'. Here is
what He says about the human spirit (or principle if you will):

"This spirit has the power of discovery; it encompasses all things. All these
wonderful signs, these scientific discoveries, great enterprises and important
historical events which you know are due to it. From the realm of the invisible
and hidden, through spiritual power, it brought them to the plane of the visible.
So man is upon the earth, yet he makes discoveries in the heavens. From
known realities—that is to say, from the things which are known and visible
—he discovers unknown things. For example, man is in this hemisphere; but,
like Columbus, through the power of his reason he discovers another hemisphere
—that is, America—which was until then unknown. His body is heavy, but through
the help of vehicles which he invents, he is able to fly. He is slow of movement,
but by vehicles which he invents he travels to the East and West with extreme
rapidity. Briefly, this power embraces all things."
-Some Answered Questions p. 143

He even says that this reality has always existed. As I understand it, this reality is
a part of the foundation of all things. If there were no such degree, there would be
no universe. In other words, adding together the various elements which make up
the planets does not produce this power. On the contrary, this power is a motive
cause for other things.

-Peter

coatofmanycolours
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:13 pm

"What steps should I take being new to this?"

hi CatLady; I enjoy personal study, kind of at random. I never know what
I will want to read today. Also, saying prayers, fasting in the month of Ala and
calmly meditating on the meanings in the Writings are all a part of learning and
growing as a person.

You may also enjoy Ruhi classes. I went to one today, even though I live in a
tiny community with only a few believers.

You mention backbiting, which is one of many habits which are harmful to people.
You may find it helpful to think about the big picture. Eventually, the entire civilization
will change and mature. Our brave efforts are a part of that evolution.

Exciting, isn't it.

-Peter

coatofmanycolours
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:23 pm

"… am I doing this right?"

hi CatLady; Voting without going nuts and getting all partisan about it?
Ya! I think you are doing it right.

-Peter

TheCatLady
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:51 am

Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby TheCatLady » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:03 pm

Thank you very much for all your answers, coatofmanycolours!

So, then there is no real explaination for why women are not allowed to be elected, but just having confidence in writings? I will try, I have started to come to terms with this, and try to think of reasons why this might be, so I'm sure I'll be able to get over it.

As for the evolution issue, I am very relieved to hear your point of view on that. That is one of the reasons I could never really join another religion, as most religions argue with evolution, and it's what makes sense to me.

And as for the path to take on the writings- just kind of... read all over the place? Is there anything you would suggest me reading first? That also makes me have questions about formal prayers. I have never really said a formal prayer, usually when I pray to God I just have sort of a conversation with him, I thank Him and tell him how much I love Him and ask him for help, but it's nothing like the formal prayers. But, I have a big big big list of Baha'i prayers, and I do know about the obligatory prayers. From my understanding there are three of them, a short one, a medium one, and a long one. I have to say one of them once a day, and then say two other prayers at the designated times, right? Or do I have to say all three at their designated times? I am a little confused on that. What do you do? So, can I say any prayer I want? It sounds silly, but right now I really like some of the simpler children's prayers like "O God Guide Me", and I have also found this one I like
"“O my Lord! O my Lord!...”
O my Lord! O my Lord!
I am a child of tender years. Nourish me from the breast of Thy mercy, train me in the bosom of Thy love, educate me in the school of Thy guidance and develop me under the shadow of Thy bounty. Deliver me from darkness, make me a brilliant light; free me from unhappiness, make me a flower of the rose garden; suffer me to become a servant of Thy threshold and confer upon me the disposition and nature of the righteous; make me a cause of bounty to the human world, and crown my head with the diadem of eternal life.
Verily, Thou art the Powerful, the Mighty, the Seer, the Hearer.
—‘Abdu’l-Bahá"

But I am not a child, obviously. Does that sound odd? I know these are weird questions, but I just... I don't know anything at all!

I also have another question but... I'm afraid of asking it as I'm afraid I'll be judged or be told that I am doing something really horrible... I know what the laws say about sex outside of marriage... but what do you do if you're already in a long-term relationship with someone, like two years, and you have already had sexual relations with them for almost as long as you have been together? We have decided to get married, but have not gotten engaged by asking our parents for permission (although my parents, non-Baha'is, have already told me they are behind me 100%), and this will happen when I'm out of college, another 3 1/5 - 4 years. I have had a lot of problems with sex in my younger years, being with people who didn't really love me and only stayed with me for that, so I know that our relationship is purely out of love, I have no doubt about it. I mention this because I think that, although it is law, I'm afraid of what kind of strain this will put on our relationship, especially since I have worries that he is actually a sex addict. I don't know where to take this, but I know what kind of repsonse I will get.... I'm just so confused as to what to do. He will be my husband, it's just a matter of money, and that is all. Please don't judge me, or look at me harshly... I really need some advice on this. Edit: I would like to point out that we started to do this before I had any idea of the Faith, or any desire to join. I have also not declared yet...

coatofmanycolours
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:48 am

CatLady; Marriage requires the consent of parents but also the consent of each other.
If you and your partner decide to marry, why wait? It doesn't have to be expensive or
fancy. The Baha'i ceremony is so elegant and simple with each of you saying the vow,
"We will all, verily, abide by the will of God.". In fact, unless required by the laws of the
place where you live, there is no need for the marriage officer to say anything. You are
marrying each other by following the simple Baha'i law (plus any civil requirements).
Also, you do not have to be a Baha'i to have a Baha'i marriage and of course it is perfectly
acceptable to marry a person of any Faith.

I would say, don't be afraid to consult the Spiritual Assembly of the city in which you live.
It helps them to grow and it helps you and your partner to grow spiritually.

About prayer. I like the revealed prayers as they come from God and are quite powerful.
However, like you, I also like to pray in my own words and tell God about my thoughts,
feelings and needs.

-Peter

Truth
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby Truth » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:16 am

Hey CatLady,

Religious stuff aside, do you think taking sex away from the relationship is a test of the strength of your relationship?

I know deep down you don't want to test your relationship with someone you love so much like that. It's kind of scary to know that your relationship could possibly crumble over such a thing, especially when it's happened previously. No one wants to lose someone they love over something like that, but maybe it's best for the future strength of your relationship. Especially if you may think your partner is a sex addict. That's another issue altogether, and I'd suggest you discuss that with a professional.

Once again, this is only my own personal opinion as just food for thought. I've been in relationships where my partner initially said she's perfectly okay with no sex before marriage, but it caused such a strain on the relationship that it didn't last, which later i realized was for the better.

Anyway, good luck with everything, i hope it all works out for you!
No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

JusticeForAll
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby JusticeForAll » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:15 am

Hi TheCatLady,

With regard to your last comments about sex, one thing you should know is we are all horrible sinners here. Each one of us fails to live up to all that is required by God from us in his books. God has not sent down his Manifestations to create turmoil in our lives from our lack of ability to live up to the Glorious gift of his Laws. If you relax and pray to God for His assistance and guidance in finding your way from the life you are living to a life that most follows the way of His teachings you will be rewarded. At this point in your investigation of the faith do not focus on your own failings but on knowing the writings of the faith. You will find as you read and study these writings a change will be made in you that will better reflect these holy attributes of God. Patience is the key at this point in your journey, I have been at this (studying the faith and trying to live up to its teachings) for years and continue to fail continually, but this does not matter my focus is on God and each failure only gives me a better understanding of myself. Your own self is a reflection of God and the teachings are a reflection of God as well, learn to know yourself truthfully and learn the truths in the writings and you will certinly know what Gods will is for you.

Hope this helps,

JusticeForAll

pilgrimbrent
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby pilgrimbrent » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:49 am

One of the things about the Writings is that they appear at first to be too vast to cover them all. But let me ask you a question. Let's say that you wanted to read everything that Baha'u'llah revealed, in one year. How many pages per day do you think you would need to read? .... Guess.
I'll wait.....

OK, no, it's fewer than that. To read everything we have by Baha'ullah in the English language -- and I know, because I counted the pages, you need to read 3 pages in the morning, and 3 pages in the evening. In one year, you will have done a first reading of His revelation. So, in one sense, it doesn't matter where you start. Just start, and focus on what you are reading, and read it as deeply as you can. These divine Words are not only meant to be read and intellectually understood. These Words are divine nourishment for our souls, so try to read them with your soul. Know that there is nourishment in them for your mind and your spirit, and ask God to assist you to draw this nourishment out of them.

As to the obligatory prayers. My understanding is that these have a greater potency. Some of the other prayers are more lyrical; but none are more powerful, in my view. These are the basic building blocks we need every day, in order to face the world. If you say one of the obligatory prayers you don't need to say the other two. That is, if you say the short prayer in the afternoon; or say the long prayer at any time during the day; this obligation is fulfilled. The medium prayer is to be said three times per day. So this is a personal choice, which one you want to say. And my suggestion is that you approach this scientifically, and by that I mean, take stock of yourself, and your spiritual state before you say one of the obligatory prayers. Then recite it exactly as written, and strive to really focus on it, and really to passionately mean each word in it. And when you have completed it, then observe your spiritual state. Then you will know the value of the obligatory prayers, which are one of the greatest tools Baha'u'llah gave to us for our spiritual advancement.

Overall, I would say, do what's right. Seek the truth, and follow it. Then let everything else in your life order itself around that Truth.

Oh, and there's nothing in the Writings that says we are all "horrible sinners." There are statements that we are sinners. However, one of the things you observe, such as in the passages in the long obligatory prayer when we confess our sins -- is that the posture required of that part of the prayer is to "stand erect." Baha'u'llah states that God does not desire the humiliation of His creatures. He desires their nobility. So in the Baha'i Faith there is not this morbid over-focus on sin. Sure, we are incomplete beings. But there is not this overly dramatic skewed focus on us as sinners. We are God's children, we are incomplete, and we strive for development by following His laws and teachings. And we are lovable at every stage of our spiritual life. So we strive to not bring into the Faith the attitudes from the other faiths, some of which are human in origin, and which bring unhealthy attitudes that limit people's ability to grow spiritually.

There is right and wrong in the Baha'i Faith, and you need to decide how you are going to handle your relationship with your man friend. This is hard to discuss over the net anonymously; but also hard to discuss face to face. You have an issue to resolve. This is part of the tests of life, and one of the tests is, will you barter the Divine Joseph for the things of this world? There are people who won't accept Baha'u'llah because He prohibits the use of alcohol. You are not the first human being, be assured, who has a live-in boyfriend when she is approaching the Faith. But this law is taken seriously, and you should know what you are going to do, in my view, before you declare your faith. For the present, just focus on the reading and the prayers; and pray about this; and as you advance spiritually, you will find a way of coming to terms with the divine prescription, and the strength to carry it out. You can't bargain with some things. You ultimately have a choice to make. You may find, as you do the right thing, that money becomes less of an issue; or maybe your fiance will become interested in the Faith. The way you treat Baha'u'llah, the way you treat His laws, is a divine test. The more faithful you are to them, I find, the greater the divine gifts you receive. The divine laws are the key to life.

Brent

Brent

Keyvan
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby Keyvan » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:53 pm

ON WOMEN AND THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE -

This is something that is misunderstood. People tend to judge the activities and make up of the Baha'i institutions based on the standards of the political institutions of their own society.
1) It is not the men of the Universal House of Justice who rule on their own whims. Baha'i's believe it is a mystic divine inspiration that influences those elected members to who collectively achieve infallible decisions.
2) That being said, the reason why it has to be all male elected members, has to do with setting up the right "recipe" so to speak, to achieve that mystic communication.

The exact reason for that? We don't know, many speculate. My personal thoughts...It could be that having a potentially pregnant woman would be bring 10 people (instead of 9) into the chambers of the Universal House of Justice, which would throw off the mechanics. It could be that having a bi-gendered (either not all male, or not all female) would throw off the mechanics...
We'll see, but I am positive the exact answer will come through our study of quantum physics.

Keep in mind, when it comes to education, women get the priority in the Baha'i Faith. Around the world when a Baha'i family can only afford to send one or some of their children to school, by Baha'i Law the girl children must be sent. This not only shows priority for women in this regard, but also throws out any arguement that the reason for women not being on the Universal House of Justice has to do with male chauvinism. That is, if male chauvinism was the reason, then men would be the one to be nurtured intellectually and given the priority in education - especially considering they would supposedly be given priority in leadership of the community (which is not the case, for the aforementioned reasons)




ON EVOLUTION -

Baha'i beliefs on evolution do NOT contradict generally understood scientific findings on evolution. SOME individuals, usually people who have beef with the Baha'i Faith and just like to quibble about things they don't really understand, suggest that there is a contradiction. They parse words,and put words in Abdu'l Baha's mouth, without studying words in context. I wouldn't put any stock into that. I usually don't mind people parsing words, but when it comes from another language, translated by someone who was not familiar with science, and taken out of temporal context, its ridiculous - but for some reason those who cavil against the Baha'i Faith make the universe out of that. I guess because it's hard for them to find much else to cavil against.

Samira
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Re: Some questions about the faith

Postby Samira » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:44 pm

Allow me to attempt to answer your questions:

A) Why are women not allowed to be elected into the Universal House of Justice?

The Faith of Baha'ullah only permits males to be elected to the Universal House of Justice. Also, only males could be selected to be Guardians in the Will and Testment of 'Abdu'l-Baha:

"According to the ordinances of the Faith of God, women are the equals of men in all rights save only that of membership on the Universal House of Justice, for, as hath been stated in the text of the Book, both the Head and the members of the House of Justice are men. However, in all other bodies, such as the Temple Construction Committee, the Teaching Committee, the Spiritual Assembly, and in charitable and scientific associations, women share equally in all rights with men. (from a newly translated tablet).
(see http://bahai-library.com/uhj/women.uhj.html)

And some would point out that only males have been and will be 'Manifestations of God' (prophets that bring a Book and Dispensation).


Abdul-Baha wrote:
"The House of Justice, however, according to the explicit text of the Law of God, is confined to men; this for a wisdom of the Lord God's which will ere long be made manifest as clearly as the sun at high noon. (Selections from the writings of Abdu'l Baha (rev. ed) Haifa: Baha'i World Center, 1982), p. 80) (see also http://bahai-library.com/uhj/women.uhj.html)


B) I have read a blog where the person had pulled quotes from Abdu’l-Baha saying things against Evolution. So, is it wrong for me to believe in Evolution, even though I feel that it can make perfect sense with this religion?? What do Baha’is believe?

I will suggest you research here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1% ... nd_science

Of course evolution is accepted by the Baha'is.


C) What steps should I take being new to this? I already know the community, and have gone to one Fireside, but am too afraid to talk just yet. I also have a bunch of the Holy texts on my computer, and in my bookshelf- but there are so much, I am so overwhelmed as to where to start! Any ideas how I should do this??

Blogs may contain good references, but personal interpretations in some blogs of the Baha'i Writings can confuse and create misunderstandings. I would suggest judging and learning about the Teachings of the Faith by going to the authentic materials first, then less so the views of others. There are Baha'is of many years who often are still learning what the Faith teaches on various topics and having to un-learn what they had thought the Faith teaches because they simply accepted what their fellow Baha'is told them the Faith teaches instead of getting it from the Writings. With so much being available on the Internet these days in term of authentic Writings, this generation has a far better chance of being better informed.
Ruhi courses have their place as introductory materials, but because they, too, contain passages from unauthenticated Writings (which the Ruhi booklet do not indicate readily), one can go one-step better by being vigilent and being sure the quote is authentic. Baha'is place a high value on authentic Writings vs. the 'pilgrim notes', or reported sayings of the Figures of the Faith.


D) I do have a real problem with backbiting, as in my work environment everyone does it to each other. I really really feel horrible about it, and I want to stop, but I don’t know how as it’s a pretty ingrained habit, especially with co-workers I don’t exactly like. How can I break myself of that?

Habits are hard to break and sometimes it takes much prayer and the help of being around a strong group of people who do not partake of that habit to help one break some habits. Being around people with bad habits is undesirable, and if you can excuse yourself from them, such as during lunch breaks, it is better. Finding another job may be necessary. Saying only nice things about people behind their backs with your co-workers listening is a way to counter-act their bad habit... it may actually change them to say nice things, too.

E) Voting wise, it is okay that I vote, right? As long as I don’t put bumper stickers on my car and signs in my yard and run around like an idiot telling everyone who I’m voting for? I do relate as an independent, so I am trying not partisan… am I doing this right?

The Faith asks that we not involve ourselves in partisanship, taking sides in such a way that we are creating an unfreindly atmosphere between peoples with varying points of view.

Abdul-Baha highly encouraged Baha'is to vote in civil elections, in fact said it was essentially obligatory.

It is left to each individual believer to decide what involvement they wish to have with the government they live under short of joining or affiliating with a political party or organizations whose views, in part, may not coincide with Baha'i beliefs. Listing yourself as an independent is appropriate. One can always ask the advise of their Baha'i Assembly when a question arises about the appropriateness of any such matters. I've know Baha'is who place a bumbersticker on there car and a sign in their yard and nothing is said about it in the Baha'i community. Other Baha'is have placed their names on ballots to run for non-partisan offices such as local school boards, as these are non-partisan positions. Baha'is have been appointed to government positions in many countries. Working for government jobs, tax supported jobs, is allowed. The Baha'i International Community and Baha'i National Assemblies has asked Baha'is to write letters to statesmen and ambassadors and sign petitions to promote Bills in Congress and Declarations the United Nations which are determined to be in accord with Baha'i beliefs or for protection of the Baha'i community. So this is more a matter of being non-partisan in the commonly understood political sense, but does not mean being totally uninvolved with the issues of the day, nor does it entail being without an opinion on social issues of the day and saying how one feels before others in manner which does not create rancor and division.

Samira


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