If vernal equinox falls on the 22nd...

[Truth]

Do we still fast on the 21st considering we celebrate Naw Ruz on the 22nd if vernal equinox occurs after sunset on the 21st?

[coatofmanycolours]

no.

fasting ends at dusk on the 19th of Ala.

-Peter

[brettz9]

I'm not so sure about that...I think Poppa Stylez is correct here (at least for the future)...

Note 26 to the Aqdas says,

"In the Bayán, the Báb ordained the month of 'Alá' to be the month of fasting, decreed that the day of Naw-Rúz should mark the termination of that period, and designated Naw-Rúz as the Day of God."

and from note 24:

"The nineteen-day period of fasting coincides with the Bahá'í month of 'Alá', usually 2-20 March".

So, it seems the fast (and the month of 'Alá') would continue until the official day of Naw-Rúz. (That the month of 'Ala' also varies in length in this way, will also make it difficult to peg the Baha'i calendar exactly to the Gregorian one.)

However, note 26 also states:

"The Guardian has stated that the implementation, worldwide, of the law concerning the timing of Naw-Rúz will require the choice of a particular spot on earth which will serve as the standard for the fixing of the time of the spring equinox. He also indicated that the choice of this spot has been left to the decision of the Universal House of Justice."

and in Directives from the Guardian:

"Regarding Naw-Rúz: If the vernal equinox falls on the 21st of March before sunset, it is celebrated on that day. If at any time after sunset, Naw-Rúz will then, as stated by Bahá'u'lláh, fall on the 22nd. As to which spot should be regarded as the standard, this is a matter which the Universal House of Justice will have to decided. The American NSA need not therefore take any action in this matter at present."

So we presently do not follow this standard. It seems like for now March 21 is to be used...

"The Naw-Rúz Feast should be held on March 21 before sunset"

(Directives from the Guardian, p. 30)

Although the Baha'i day usually begins in the evening before...

"The Bahá'í Day starts and ends at sunset, and consequently the date of the celebration of Bahá'í Feasts should be adjusted to conform to the Bahá'í Calendar Time..."

(Directives from the Guardian, p. 31)

...we are to celebrate the nine off-of-work Holy Days on the same day before sunset:

"Regarding the time for the holding of the Nineteen-Day Feasts and elections; the Guardian would advise your Assembly to urge the friends to hold such gatherings on the prescribed day before sunset. If impossible, then it is permissible to hold them on the preceding day. In connection with the nine holy days, however, the friends should consider it obligatory to celebrate them on the prescribed day before sunset."

(Directives from the Guardian, p. 30)

However, I'm not sure how breaking the fast could ever be done on the 20th if one must wait until sunset of the 21st to know whether Naw-Ruz falls on the 21st or 22nd. I suppose it can be estimated in most cases. If one must wait till the vernal equinox to know whether to celebrate it that day, and if we are to celebrate it on the day of, it seems like Naw Ruz could sometimes be very short if on the 21st! (unless again, an estimate will be made).

Brett

[Truth]

However, I'm not sure how breaking the fast could ever be done on the 20th if one must wait until sunset of the 21st to know whether Naw-Ruz falls on the 21st or 22nd. I suppose it can be estimated in most cases. If one must wait till the vernal equinox to know whether to celebrate it that day, and if we are to celebrate it on the day of, it seems like Naw Ruz could sometimes be very short if on the 21st! (unless again, an estimate will be made).

Hey Brett,

Why would we need to wait till the sunset of the 21st to know whether Naw Ruz falls on the 21st or 22nd? I'd have thought we could just work out the date/time of the vernal equinox according to our timezone well before and plan from there?
e.g. Vernal Equinox this year was UTC 20th March 2009 11:44am. On the eastcoast of australia, we're 11 hours ahead of UTC (in daylight savings) which means vernal equinox for us falls on 20th March 10:44pm, hence Naw Ruz is on the 21st.

[brettz9]

I was hoping someone could enlighten me on the equinox, so thank you. I know things should be mostly predictable astronomically speaking, but I wasn't clear on exactly how reliably (and I've got a cold now, so don't have much energy to research it) and whether there would be cases too close to call without waiting. But in any case, it still makes things harder for programmatically determining the date (which is of course just fine--such unclarities inspired the study of astronomy among the early Muslims).

I haven't had time or energy to study the statements deeply (let alone be able to confirm them), but I wonder how the following statements bear on Baha'u'llah's statement referencing Aries... It seems from the last quotation that the Baha'i calendar considers the "tropical zodiac" although this does "not now correspond with the constellations of the same name as they did about 2000 years ago". Given the statement which continues: "For this reason some Western astrologers use the Sidereal zodiac which still uses the actual star positions.", does that mean Aries is not really being considered now for the position or ?. (Sorry, I really would like to research it myself, but was hoping someone more knowledgeable might explain if they could.)

The Festival of Naw-Rúz falleth on the day that the sun entereth the sign of Aries,[The vernal equinox in the northern hemisphere] even should this occur no more than one minute before sunset.

(Baha'u'llah, Question and Answer 35)

From the Wikipedia article on the equinox,

For western tropical astrology, the same thing holds true; the vernal equinox is the first point (i.e. the start) of the sign of Aries. In this system, it is of no significance that the fixed stars and equinox shift compared to each other due to the precession of the equinoxes.

(at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox )

and

First point (or cusp) of Aries or Libra are archaic names now only used by astrologers. Due to the precession of the equinoxes, the astrological signs where these equinoxes are located no longer correspond with the actual constellations once ascribed to them.

(at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox )

Most western astrologers use the tropical zodiac beginning with the sign of Aries at the Northern hemisphere Vernal Equinox always on or around March 21 of each year. Due to a phenomenon called precession of the equinoxes (where the Earth's axis slowly rotates like a spinning top in a 25,700 year cycle), there is a slow shift in the correspondence between Earth's seasons (and calendar) and the constellations of the zodiac. This means the signs of the tropical zodiac do not now correspond with the constellations of the same name as they did about 2000 years ago. For this reason some Western astrologers use the Sidereal zodiac which still uses the actual star positions.

(at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology )

best wishes,
Brett