Questions about the Bahai Faith

All research or scholarship questions
brettz9
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Re: Questions aboit the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:16 am

Hello and welcome,

As far as pork/question #1, there is simply this statement:

"The eating of pork is not forbidden in the Bahá'í Teachings."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, March 27, 1938)


One Muslim (who later became a Baha'i) observed that this does not mean that pork is encouraged, simply that the law has changed to not forbid it.

I understand there may be a Tablet from Baha'u'llah about why it was forbidden before, but I have not seen it myself. Some have speculated that pork was disallowed due to the lack of knowledge at the time of trichinosis, etc.

As far as question #2 on the Bible, Baha'u'llah explained that most of the references in the Qu'ran to the Bible being corrupted, except in a few rare cases, referred to the text being misinterpreted. He argued that if the Bible did not mostly convey the Divine teachings faithfully, and that failing to have a Holy Book for all that time would be contrary to God's mercy (I recall that another argument may have been given in our Writings about the fact that the absence of such a text would not allow them to be held to account on the Judgment Day brought by the Revelation of the Qur'an). Baha'u'llah discusses this in paragraphs 91-98 of the Kitab-i-Iqan, His most important doctrinal work. However, we do not believe that the Bible is 100% accurate:

The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Baha'u'llah."
(From a letter dated July 28, 1936 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to a National Spiritual Assembly at http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file= ... pensations )


As far as the Zoroastrian, Buddhist and Hindu scriptures, there is this compilation (if you want one in detail on Buddhist scriptures, there is this one.) Basically, we believe that while some prophecies and teachings have been preserved, much has been lost and in some cases are contrary to their original teachings.

As far as question #3/on angels and jinn:

"Regarding your question as to the meaning of Jin or Genii referred to in the Qur'an, these are not beings or creatures that are actually living, but are symbolic references to the power of men of evil and may be likened to evil spirits. But the point to bear in mind is that these have no positive existence of any kind."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, June 26, 1936: Bahá'í News, No. 105, p. 1, February 1937)


Angels are seen similarly: as being symbolic of holy beings, though we also believe that they can refer to beings in the next world who are, unlike Jinn, granted the power by God to positively influence the goings-on in this world.

As far as the second part of question #3 on God revealing the Qu'ran through the Angel Gabriel, yes we believe that God has marked the beginning of the Messengers' Revelations with such a symbolic representation. You can see a few references in the Baha'i Writings which refer specifically to Gabriel or you can also read on the symbolic nature of such occurrences (also here), in this context explaining how the Dove which appeared to His Holiness Jesus Christ was a spiritual state, not a material form.

As far as question #4 on the Son of God, we uphold both the Qur'an which maintains that God can have no sons or daughters, as well as the title of Jesus as the "Son". Our Writings explain the difference, indicating that the Qur'an was objecting to the sometimes almost literal/corporeal belief of some Christians that God really had a physical son.

It is true that Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God, but this, as explained by Bahá'u'lláh in the Iqan, does not indicate any physical relationship whatever. Its meaning is entirely spiritual, and points out to the close relationship existing between Him and the Almighty God. Nor does it necessarily indicate any inherent superiority in the station of Jesus over other Prophets and Messengers. As far as their spiritual nature is concerned all Prophets can be regarded as Sons of God, as they all reflect His light, though not in an equal measure, and this difference in reflection is due to the conditions and circumstances under which they appear."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 29, 1937)


As far as question #5 on the crucifixion, there is this:

"Regarding your question relative to Surih 4, 156 of the 'Qur'an' in which Muhammad says that the Jews did not crucify Jesus, the Christ, but one like Him; what is meant by this passage is that although the Jews succeeded in destroying the physical body of Jesus, yet they were impotent to destroy the divine reality in Him."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 19, 1938 at http://bahai-library.com/?file=hornby_l ... er=4#n1669 )


and

The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 14, 1943, at http://bahai-library.com/?file=hornby_l ... er=4#n1646 )


best wishes,
Brett

brettz9
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Re: Questions aboit the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:55 am

As far as question #1 on the sacrifice of Ishmael, this was addressed in our Writings, confirming the Qur'anic version:

"As to the question raised by the Racine Assembly in connection with Bahá'u'lláh's statement in the 'Gleanings' concerning the sacrifice of Ishmael: Although this statement does not agree with that made in the Bible, Genesis 22:9, the friends should unhesitatingly, and for reasons that are only too obvious, give precedence to the sayings of Bahá'u'lláh which, it should be pointed out, are fully corroborated by the Qur'an, which book is more authentic than the Bible including both the New and the Old Testaments. The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada, July 28, 1936: Bahá'í News, No. 103, p. 1, October 1936)


You can also see the passage of Baha'u'llah here.

Some have raised questions as to whether the Qur'an really states that Ishmael was the one sacrificed, but the above quotation emphasizes our own belief (and I see some Muslims have offered their own proofs to this effect as well).

As far as the Twelfth Imam, yes, we believe he existed, and he, along with the other Holy Imams, is exalted and quoted from in our Writings:

All that thou hast heard regarding Muhammad the son of Hasan - may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake - is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him. But the Imams of the Faith have fixed His abode in the city of Jabulqa,35 which they have depicted in strange and marvellous signs. To interpret this city according to the literal meaning of the tradition would indeed prove impossible, nor can such a city ever be found. Wert thou to search the uttermost corners of the earth, nay probe its length and breadth for as long as God’s eternity hath lasted and His sovereignty will endure, thou wouldst never find a city such as they have described, for the entirety of the earth could neither contain nor encompass it. If thou wouldst lead Me unto this city, I could assuredly lead thee unto this holy Being, Whom the people have conceived according to what they possess and not to that which pertaineth unto Him! Since 37 this is not in thy power, thou hast no recourse but to interpret symbolically the accounts and traditions that have been reported from these luminous souls. And, as such an interpretation is needed for the traditions pertaining to the aforementioned city, so too is it required for this holy Being. When thou hast understood this interpretation, thou shalt no longer stand in need of “transformation” or aught else...

(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, par. 48)


You might be interested to note that His Holiness, the Bab (the Herald-Prophet and Forerunner of Baha'u'llah), made the Declaration of His Mission in the year 1260, 1000 thousand years from the disappearance of the Twelvth Imam.

While it is possible that our Writings consider the Imams to be greater than the lesser prophets of Israel (e.g., Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, etc.), we do not consider them to be in the same position as the Manifestations, that is true.

"In the prayer mentioned above Bahá'u'lláh identifies Himself with Imam Husayn. This does not make him a Prophet, but his position was very unique, and we know Bahá'u'lláh claims to be the 'return' of the Imam Husayn. He, in other words, identifies His Spirit with these Holy Souls gone before; that does not, of course, make Him in any way their reincarnation. Nor does it mean all of them were Prophets.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, February 8, 1949)


We believe that they of course have a very position, however:

"The guidance vouchsafed to the Imams regarding the laws and institutions of Islam was absolute and unqualified. Their infallibility was derived directly from the Manifestation.

"The Bab's descent from the Imam Husayn is no doubt a proof of the validity of the Imamate. According to Nabil the dream the Bab had made him first conscious of His Revelation.

"The precedence of the name Husayn over Ali does establish the greatness of Imam Husayn.

"Imam Husayn has, as attested by the Iqan, been endowed with special grace and power among the Imams, hence the mystical reference to Bahá'u'lláh as the return of Imam Husayn, meaning the Revelation in Bahá'u'lláh of those attributes with which Imam Husayn had been specifically endowed...

"The spirit of Islam, no doubt, was the living germ of modern Civilization; which derived its impetus from the Islamic culture in the Middle Ages, a culture that was the fruit of the Faith of Muhammad."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 30, 1941)


Any difference with mainstream Shi'a belief might be attributed either to imperfect transmission of any tradition giving rise to such belief or due to a difference of understanding of the meaning of any such traditions. I'm not familiar enough with either the Shi'i beliefs in this regard, or in the Baha'i position, outside of my seeming to recall a passage in which Baha'u'llah attributed the downfall of Shi'ism due to over-exalting the Imams beyond even the Prophet. I'm sorry I can't find this passage now, if I am recalling it correctly. I seem to recall it being in Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

Their position might be compared to the Guardianship in the Baha'i Faith, there having been only one, Shoghi Effendi--infallibly guided interpreters who heroically expounded the Faith throughout their blessed lives.

Lastly, as far as completion of the Bayan,

In God Passes By Shoghi Effendi points out that the Bayán "should be regarded primarily as a eulogy of the Promised One rather than a code of laws and ordinances designed to be a permanent guide to future generations". "Designedly severe in the rules and regulations it imposed," he continues, "revolutionizing in the principles it instilled, calculated to awaken from their age-long torpor the clergy and the people, and to administer a sudden and fatal blow to obsolete and corrupt institutions, it proclaimed, through its drastic provisions, the advent of the anticipated Day, the Day when `the Summoner shall summon to a stern business', when He will `demolish whatever hath been before Him, even as the Apostle of God demolished the ways of those that preceded Him'"

(Notes to the Kitab-i-Aqdas, no. 158)


As far as why the Bab appeared so close in time to Baha'u'llah, our Writings declare this a mystery, but I recall they also indicate that it indicates the greatness and fecundity of this Revelation--the Age of Fulfillment (and in line with the note about the Bayan, besides achieving its own high and most important purpose of being an independent Revelation of God, the coming of the Bab also offered an opportunity for a Manifestation Himself to appear to exalt the Revelation of Baha'u'llah). The completion of the Bayan (which we believe to be the Kitab-i-Iqan), also afforded Baha'u'llah an opportunity to expound His doctrine, demonstrate the Truth of the Bab, and allude to His own Revelation.

best wishes,
Brett

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Re: Questions aboit the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:37 am

Hello brett,

If you dont mind could you explain the concept of Jinn being metaphoric? Because I have and others have had direct expierences with spirits or what the muslims call Jinn. So many have experienced this, although science cannot explain them they truely exist. So are there any concept of spirits etc?
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Questions aboit the Bahai Faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:28 pm

Here is an example of an angelic being which, metaphorically, illustrates a bestowal from God
called 'trustworthiness':
“We will now mention unto thee Trustworthiness and the station thereof in the estimation of God,
thy Lord, the Lord of the Mighty Throne. One day of days We repaired unto Our Green Island.
Upon Our arrival, We beheld its streams flowing, and its trees luxuriant, and the sunlight playing
in their midst. Turning Our face to the right, We beheld what the pen is powerless to describe;
nor can it set forth that which the eye of the Lord of Mankind witnessed in that most sanctified,
that most sublime, that blest, and most exalted Spot.

Turning, then, to the left We gazed on one of the Beauties of the Most Sublime Paradise, standing
on a pillar of light, and calling aloud saying: ‘O inmates of earth and heaven! Behold ye My beauty,
and My radiance, and My revelation, and My effulgence. By God, the True One! I am Trustworthiness
and the revelation thereof, and the beauty thereof. I will recompense whosoever will cleave unto Me,
and recognize My rank and station, and hold fast unto My hem. I am the most great ornament of
the people of Bahá, and the vesture of glory unto all who are in the kingdom of creation.

I am the supreme instrument for the prosperity of the world, and the horizon of assurance unto
all beings.’ Thus have We sent down for thee that which will draw men nigh unto the Lord of creation.”

-Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf p. 135

note by Peter: Notice how the world is now suffering an economic crisis
because of the lack of this gift, offered by God, to man. As trustworthiness
increases, so also does prosperity increase.

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Re: Questions aboit the Bahai Faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:30 pm

The spirit of trustworthiness enters into the soul of man,
and he becomes angelic in character. -Peter

BritishBahai
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby BritishBahai » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:38 pm

someone123 wrote:2. If Heaven and Hell are spiritual states, then how will bad people who were not punished in their lives be punished?

Dont know if youve heard this before, so i will summarise this as follows:

Our aim is to get as close to God as possible. Distance from Him is like hell. Therefore, the further away, the worse it will be. That is how 'bad' people are punished and its only through God's Will that these people will gradually get closer to Him -- if they ever *do*...
"I have desired only what Thou didst desire, and love only what Thou dost love"

brettz9
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:04 pm

As far as question #1, though it'd help to know the exact tradition so we could research it further, as far as a trumpet blast, this article has a few references: http://bahai-library.com/books/announce ... an/10.html such as a quotation of Baha'u'llah claiming that His "Pen of Glory" (Himself) was the trumpet blast. His great announcement indeed shook the foundations of religious society. As far as every person dieing, as with most prophecies being figurative, this might perhaps be understood as referring to Baha'u'llah's Revelation causing all beings to be made new and/or that it would expose the relative nothingness of those who opposed Him. The claims of the Scriptures cannot possibly be understood literally (e.g., how could real stars "fall" from the sky?).

As far as question #3, for those who claim to have seen angels or Jinn, there are people who claim many things, some of them are even sincere in their belief--but that doesn't mean that the experience is more than psychological conviction (even though it may seem real to that person). As the House of Justice states in a letter on its behalf in a similar situation:

The House of Justice affirms that the influence of these supernatural phenomena is dependent on the conviction, even on a subconscious level, that other people can influence a person's mind, and it attests that it is within the power of the individual to free himself from subjugation to these forces. By deepening themselves in the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, Bahá'ís will come to recognize the lack of any true reality in such negative forces.

(at http://bahai-library.com/unpubl.compila ... a.html#s4e )


best wishes,
Brett

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby BruceDLimber » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:41 am

Greetings! :-)

>1. In Islamic belief on Qiyamah (Judgement day) an angel will blow a horn and every living person will die.

>Then all the dead people will be raised back to life.

>All the people in history will be at a plain in Arabia (I don't remember where, I think Mina or the plain of Mount Arafat).

>At this plain they will be judged.

>My question is how do Bahais explain this?

>Bahaullah never went to this plain after his declaration.

(For the record, the words are "Baha'i" and "Baha'u'llah." If it'll help, "baha" means "glory"; Baha'i means "of Glory" and Baha'u'llah "Glory of God." And the apostrophes are important because they are the transliterations of <silent> letters in the original Persian and Arabic <glottal stops> that alter the pronunciation of the words.)

In the Baha'i scriptures (in particular, the Book of Certitude) Baha'u'llah explains that Judgement Day refers to the time when a new Divine Messenger appears on earth and people have the choice of whether to accept & follow Him or not! Nothing to do with any particular physical place. That passage, like many similar ones, is IOV spiritual metaphor and not to be taken literally.

>2. If Heaven and Hell are spiritual states, then how will bad people who were not punished in their lives be punished?

Our purpose in this life is twofold: as individuals, to acquire spiritual virtues that we'll need both here and in the Next Life, and in aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.

If we fail to acquire these virtues we'll be handicapped in the Next Life just as a fetus that fails to acquire physical attributes (hands, eyes, etc.) in the womb is handicapped here.

We thus put ourselves into Heaven (spiritual nearness to God) or hell (spiritual separation) depending on our own choices! (Please note that these situations apply here and now as well as in the next, and in this life we can switch back and forth between them simply by changing "where our heads are at.")

Our situation when we enter the Next Life is a function of how well we've developed these spiritual virtues. With them, we're spiritually near God (Heaven); without them, remote (hell).

But even for those starting in the worst condition then, our scriptures assure us that God, in His infinite Love and Mercy, will aid everyone eventually to draw nearer to Him and eventually arrive in Heaven!

>3. Bahais don't believe in the physical existence of angels and jinn.

>Then what about people who claim to have seen an angel or jinn.

This is only half correct in the Baha'i view.

The Baha'i scriptures explain that angels are in fact people who have become completely spiritual! Quote upon request.

Everything God created is good; therefore there is no "devil" and no "jinn."

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Further, evil is simply the relative lack of good, just as dark isn't an actual physical "thing" in itself but merely the absence of light. (This is proven by the fact that you can bring light into a dark room but not dark into a light room.) I can, if you like, supply further details about this (from the Baha'i scriptures) if you like.

So anyone claiming to have seen a jinn is either fantasizing or excessively relying on his or her own lower nature! Simple as that.

Best regards, and further questions are always most welcome! :-)

Bruce

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:01 am

Bruce,

interesting response. I have a couple of issues though.

You said
The Baha'i scriptures explain that angels are in fact people who have become completely spiritual! Quote upon request.


Could you please show me the quote that is quite interesting.

You also said

Everything God created is good; therefore there is no "devil" and no "jinn."


But these beings or spirits do seem to exist. My father has seen them many times, I have seen them in dreams. How do we explain paranormal activity? To me it is not a myth. A lot of people do not believe in that stuff until they experience it. But I have experienced it, so how can we say they are only metaphoric? People have been possessed. Yes some people may acquire a disease that makes them appear possessed but others have been possessed and then the devil or spirit left their body after exorcisms etc. This is found in many cultures.

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.


Okay I sort of agree here. But then looking at quotes from the Quran it seems clearly that Iblis (Shaytan or satan) truely does exist. He was a righteous being who then became arrogant and rebelled against the way of GOd. Then asked God to grant him respite until the day of judgement so that he could show God that many of his slaves are not thankful. So he ask God and God gives him respite and Satan says I will await in ambush of them on the straight path and from their right and their left and front and their back.

So this seems like an actual being? How can we say he is metaphoric.


Now another issue, is what is truely our lowly desires and what is truely evil? The other day on television I learned of a child porn video in which a (4 year old) girl was bounded and gagged while a man was raping her. She was obviously apparently screaming but it was muffled due to the gag.

Now I know I have lowly desires, but what lowly desires could drive someone to rape a 4 year girl and torture her?


Many thanks

Sorry if my questions are a bit hard but these issues are important. I love the bahai faith but I want to take my time before making any decisions

-juan
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby onepence~2 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:23 am

Man has two aspects: the physical, which is subject to nature, and the merciful or divine, which is connected with God. If the physical or natural disposition in him should overcome the heavenly and merciful, he is, then, the most degraded of animal beings; and if the divine and spiritual should triumph over the human and natural, he is, verily, an angel.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/PUP/ ... hlight#gr5

O ye Cohorts of God! Praise be to God! —that the Blessed Perfection hath freed the necks from the bonds and fetters and released all from racial attachments by proclaiming, “Ye are all the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch.” Be ye kind to the human world, and be ye compassionate to the race of man, deal with the strangers as you deal with the friends, be ye gentle toward the outsiders as you are toward the beloved ones, know the enemy as the friend, look upon the satan as upon the angel, receive the unjust with the utmost love like unto a faithful one, and diffuse far and wide the fragrances of the musk of the gazelles of Kheta and Khotan 2 to the nostrils of the ravenous wolves.

Become ye a shelter and asylum to the fearful ones, be ye a cause of tranquility and cease to the souls and hearts of the agitated ones, impart ye strength to the helpless ones, be ye a remedy and antidote to the afflicted ones, and a physician and nurse to the sick ones. Serve ye for the promotion of peace and concord and establish in this transitory world the foundation of friendship, fidelity, reconciliation and truthfulness.
O ye Cohorts of God! Strive ye ...

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/TAB/ ... hlight#gr8

If thou become so, thou wilt be an evident light and a divine angel in the celestial dominion; then it dependeth on the divine confirmation, according to thy perseverance.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/TAB/ ... hlight#gr4

////
///

dh note ... i think there is a quote about persian believers being angels but as of this time i have not located it.

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby onepence~2 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:29 am

hhey ... what do you know ... perhaps a typo ...

"tranquility and cease "

i think should read tranquility and ease

yes ... {??} ...

if so someone should write and inform some dept ...

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:55 am

Beautiful response. the words of Baha'ullah are so powerful. Imagine if we all truely acted upon them. How wonderful the world would be. Baha'ullahs speech reminds me much of what the Buddha has to say. I am growing to like baha'ullah more and more.

Thanks for sharing
-juan
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby BruceDLimber » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:04 pm

Hi again, Juan! :-)

Per your request, here are two quotes from the Baha'i scriptures and an official Baha'i source about angels and jinn:

86 "And now, concerning His words: 'And He shall send His angels...." By 'angels' is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim."
—The Book of Certitude, pp. 78-79

"Regarding your question as to the meaning of Jin or Genii referred to in the Qur'an, these are not beings or creatures that are actually living, but are symbolic references to the power of men of evil and may be likened to evil spirits. But the point to bear in mind is that these have no positive existence of any kind."
—(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, June 26, 1936: Bahá'í News, No. 105, p. 1, February 1937)

I'll post the passage about good and evil shortly.

(As always, any further questions are most welcome!)

Best regards! :-)

Bruce

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby BruceDLimber » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:15 pm

Juan, hi! :-)

Evil acts of course do exist!

But we Baha'is point out they simply represent relative lack of good in some fashion or other. I'll post the passage in the Baha'i scriptures that explains this below.

And types of experience you ask about are either symptoms of illness (sometimes mental), fantasties, or misinterpretions of the events around them.

Our scriptures say:
..............Chapter 74. THE NONEXISTENCE OF EVIL...............

“The true explanation of this subject is very difficult. Know that beings are of two kinds: material and spiritual, those perceptible to the senses and those intellectual.
“Things which are sensible are those which are perceived by the five exterior senses; thus those outward existences which the eyes see are called sensible. Intellectual things are those which have no outward existence but are conceptions of the mind. For example, mind itself is an intellectual thing which has no outward existence. All man's characteristics and qualities form an intellectual existence and are not sensible.
“Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.
“In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence—that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.
“Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mind—that is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elements—that is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.
“The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.
“Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.”

— 'Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 282-284

Peace, :-)

Bruce

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:55 pm

Thank you bruce for your responses.

It is very interesting but I seem to have problems accepting in totality that Jinns or "spirits" do not exist. There have just been way too many accounts. Even personal accounts. I know people I trust and are sane that have witnessed these beings. This is one of the things holding me back from the bahai faith.
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby nharandi » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:34 pm


brettz9
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:08 am

Hello someone and everyone,

As far as trees being described as part of heaven, as 'Abdu'l-Baha explains in chapter 30 of Some Answered Questions, this story cannot be taken literally. He explains the Tree of Life thus:

The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary [Bahá'u'lláh.] was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities.


As far as the Tree of Good and Evil:

The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.


In one view of the story ('Abdu'l-Baha says there are many, and talks about multiple meanings Himself--see below):

Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man.


As far as the serpent:

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.


A different interpretation also given by 'Abdu'l-Baha is this:

Remember how Adam and the others once dwelt together in Eden. No sooner, however, did a quarrel break out between Adam and Satan than they were, one and all, banished from the Garden, and this was meant as a warning to the human race, a means of telling humankind that dissension--even with the Devil--is the way to bitter loss. This is why, in our illumined age, God teacheth that conflicts and disputes are not allowable, not even with Satan himself.

(Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha, section 220)


As far as Satan's refusing to bow down before Adam, a Manifestation of God, I believe this indicates how refusing to obey the Manifestation of God (see also your question #4) is an embodiment of satanic qualities. They know and reveal what is best for us, but turning away from them leads to our own lower nature and remoteness from God.

Just as God's dominion is unlimited, so too do we believe that there is no end to the number of meanings which can be found in the scriptures. Attachment to the literal, is like attachment to the physical world--it is lifeless--but meaning is spirit. That does not mean that the literal has absolutely no place--in the case of laws, and even sometimes in terms of prophecies, the physical has its place, but in relation to the spiritual meaning, it is of lesser significance.

Even were we to take earthly criteria, any great novel or story which is merely taken literally is likely to fail to elevate our spirits. Great authors are also widely understood to deliberately be using such devices; even while there is no comparison, and as the Qur'an states, They are no mere poets, why should not the Holy Manifestations of God be able to employ different devices which, as the Qur'an states, are a mercy to men? Yes, the Qur'an was written in "plain" language, accessible in concept to common people, but it does not mean every passage is to be understood as literal, and indeed many cannot.

2. Yes, we believe that we believe there were Manifestations of God before Adam:

The Adamic Cycle inaugurated 6000 years ago by the Manifestation of God called Adam is only one of the many bygone cycles. Bahá'u'lláh, as you say, is the culmination of the Adamic Cycle. He is also the Inaugurator of the Bahá'í Cycle.

"Obviously there must have been Prophets and Manifestations in the ages preceding the Adamic Cycle. This is supported by the following statement revealed by Bahá'u'lláh.

'And now regarding thy question, "How is it that no records are to be found concerning the Prophets that have preceded Adam, the Father of Mankind, or of the Kings that lived in the days of those Prophets?" Know thou that the absence of any reference to them is no proof that they did not actually exist. That no records concerning them are now available, should be attributed to their extreme remoteness, as well as to the vast changes which the earth hath undergone since their time.'

"With regard to your question about the creation story, we are asked to quote the following from an unpublished Tablet of Abdu'l-Bahá.

'Know ye that the Torah is that which was revealed in the Tablets to Moses, may peace be upon Him, or that to which He was bidden. But the stories are historical narratives and were written after Moses, may peace be upon Him.'

"Concerning the story of Adam and Eve, Abdu'l-Bahá, in 'Some Answered Questions', explains that it cannot be taken literally. You are asked to refer to pages 122-126 of this book for the symbolic meaning of the story."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, March 13, 1986)


So, as far as mankind all being children of Adam, I believe this is to be understood in terms of how Adam began a cycle--a long cycle which has now ended with the Age of fulfillment brought by the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Since we believe that it is the teachings of the Manifestation of God, and their power to transform our characters which are the real creation, we do not need to believe (and in fact, our Writings explicitly reject the idea) that human beings only began 6000 years ago. So, we all have benefited from, and are children of the holy teachings brought by the Prophet Adam, teachings which brought life to humanity (in their morals and spirit), and are still beneficiaries of the cycle which He inaugurated. Nevertheless, 'Abdu'l-Baha in talks He gave does seem to speak of how we are all descended from the same "Adam".

Regarding thy question as to the beginning of Creation: Know thou that the Truth (GOD) has eternally ever been, and so also have His creatures, for there is no beginning either for the Truth (God) or for the creatures. According to the bodies in the contingent world, the "beginning" mentioned in the Holy Scriptures means the beginning of the Manifestation, and "creation" signifies the Second Spiritual Birth: as Christ says, "You must be born again." There is no doubt that the beginning of this Spiritual creation was the Manifestation Himself, for each Manifestation of the Divine Manifestations is the Adam (of His time,) and His first believer is Eve, while all the souls who are born of the Second Birth are His children and decendents. In the New Testament it is recorded: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit." Again in John 1:13" Which was born not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

(Unauthenticated text attributed to 'Abdu'l-Baha)



3. What you have read here is correct. However, our belief that there must have always been a creation, with His Educators and creatures to know Them, this does not preclude a belief in the Big Bang, unless someone were to claim (as would be against scientific justification) that the Big Bang should be understood as the absolute beginning of the only universe, and that no universes existed "elsewhere" or previous to it.

4. What you have read here is also correct. There is no doubt there is a difference of emphasis between the different Revelations of God, even while they are all of the same essence. In Christianity, and again now in the Baha'i Faith, the station of the Manifestation of God is again reemphasized. We believe that the Manifestations have two stations--one is of Divinity, one is of Servitude:

By virtue of this station, they have claimed for themselves the Voice of Divinity and the like, whilst by virtue of their station of Messengership, they have declared themselves the Messengers of God. In every instance they have voiced an utterance that would conform to the requirements of the occasion, and have ascribed all these declarations to Themselves, declarations ranging from the realm of divine Revelation to the realm of creation, and from the domain of Divinity even unto the domain of earthly existence. Thus it is that whatsoever be their utterance, whether it pertain to the realm of Divinity, Lordship, Prophethood, Messengership, Guardianship, Apostleship or Servitude, all is true, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Therefore, these sayings which We have quoted in support of Our argument must be attentively considered, that the divergent utterances of the Manifestations of the Unseen and Daysprings of Holiness may cease to agitate the soul and perplex the mind.

(Baha'u'llah, Kitab-i-Iqan, par. 198)



Question #5:

"In Persian it is impolite not to use the word Hadrat before the name of the Prophet, so that strictly speaking, a proper translation should always have `His Holiness Moses' etc.; however, as this seems peculiar in English, and not in the best usage of our language, he feels it can be dispensed with. Pronouns referring to the Manifestation, or the Master, should, however, invariably be capitalized."

(On behalf of the Guardian, Directives from the Guardian, at http://bahai-library.com/writings/shogh ... c-114.html )


best wishes,
Brett

SpiritualSeeker
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:57 am

hmm very interesting brettz,

so if im understanding there has been many cycles? if so that is amazing because its the same belief the Mayans have and Also I believe the hindus and aswell the Buddhist I believe have concepts of cycles. Each one seems to indicate that we are in a new cycle now or at the end of a cycle.


nharandi,

So perhaps the Jinn that people see are just ghost of beings that are confused and refuse to try to move on?
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Further regarding someone's question #4, there's also this important quotation:

"We cannot know God directly, but only through His Prophets. We can pray to Him, realizing that through His Prophets we know Him, or we can address our prayer in thought to Bahá'u'lláh, not as God, but as the Door to our knowing God."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, January 5, 1948, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1699)


Regarding evil, as Bruce indicates, evil of course does exist:

"We know absence of light is darkness, but no one would assert darkness was not a fact. It exists even though it is only the absence of something else. So evil exists too, and we cannot close our eyes to it, even though it is a negative existence. We must seek to supplant it by good, and if we see an evil person is not influenceable by us, then we should shun his company for it is unhealthy."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 4, 1950: Spiritualism, Psychic Phenomena and Related Subjects, A Compilation from the Universal House of Justice, February 14, 1973 to National Spiritual Assemblies)


I think it would be helpful to consider that by referring to things as relatively non-existent, I believe our Writings do so for the sake of bringing hope to those who believe that darkness and evil itself is being directed by some powerful sinister hidden force, the imagination of which might induce helplessness or excessive struggle, or that within ourselves, evil is, even with God's help, beyond our control.

Regarding evil spirits, let us say again that it is not that our Writings doubt that the people who claim such experiences do not genuinely believe the experience themselves (in fact they explicitly allow for that). Psychology has established, and as our Writings maintain, that, for example, if people believe that evil spirits or voodoo, etc., can influence them, they can even manifest physical manifestations of such "control", not to mention mental experiences. The experience to them is quite real, just as dreams are (and doesn't mean the person is mentally unstable), but as with many dreams, the experience is based on the very strong and subtle power of the human mind. I think you'd find a scientific investigation of the science behind it to also lead you to the same conclusion. The modern assessment by psychologists for mental health, no longer even separates physical from mental, as they both can influence one another; similarly, mental illness is conditioned on whether a person's irrationality is irrational for their own culture's norms of belief.

But, as the following quotation in the article nharandi referenced, our Writings accept that in some rare cases, there may be some communion with past souls (but not any influence of evil ones):

"Regarding your question: In His chapter on 'Visions and Communications with Spirits' in 'Some Answered Questions', the Master evidently desires to point out that there can be, under certain rare circumstances, such as those experienced by the Prophets, communion with some soul gone before into the invisible world, but that most of this type of experience which people often claim to have with departed souls is nothing but the product of their own imaginations--however real it may seem to them to be.

"We have no way of knowing historically, at present, whether the experience Saul had of Samuel was an actual spiritual intercourse. It is not the product of imagination, however, as the Bible unmistakably affirms it.

"Truly mystical experiences based on reality are very rare, and we can readily see how dangerous it is for people to go groping about in the darkness of their imagination after the true thing. That is why, as you point out, we are warned against all psychical practices by the Master.

"If we are going to have some deeply spiritual experience we can rest assured God will vouchsafe it to us without our having to look for it."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, dated October 25, 1942, to an individual believer, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1742)


The story mentioned in the article does not provide an authentic authoritative quotation attributed to 'Abdu'l-Baha confirming their experience, in which He supposedly stated that the soldiers they had witnessed fixing a car tire "were dead, and had been taken from life so quickly that they were confused as to where they now were.", so since we do not adhere to traditions in the Baha'i Faith, we can't really speak to that.

But as the authoritiatve quotation cited earlier states, we do view jinn as mentioned in the Qur'an at least as symbolic of evil men.

"Regarding your question as to the meaning of Jin or Genii referred to in the Qur'an, these are not beings or creatures that are actually living, but are symbolic references to the power of men of evil and may be likened to evil spirits. But the point to bear in mind is that these have no positive existence of any kind."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, June 26, 1936: Bahá'í News, No. 105, p. 1, February 1937)


As to cycles, yes, SpiritualSeeker, we believe that there have been and will be countless cycles. To give an idea of the significance of this age and cycle (which as you indicate have been anticipated by all major religions), our Writings indicate that the new Baha'i cycle is to last no less than 500,000 years! And the Baha'i Writings, while still rejecting views such as literal reincarnation, very much do refer to the cyclical nature of things. You might also see this in the Iqan....

all the best,
Brett

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby SpiritualSeeker » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Nice response brettz9, I especially liked this quote

"We cannot know God directly, but only through His Prophets. We can pray to Him, realizing that through His Prophets we know Him, or we can address our prayer in thought to Bahá'u'lláh, not as God, but as the Door to our knowing God."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, January 5, 1948, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1699)
Live your daily life in a way that you never lose yourself. When you are carried away with your worries, fears, cravings, anger, and desire, you run away from yourself and you lose yourself. The practice is always to go back to oneself.Thich Nhat Hanh

brettz9
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:37 pm

Sorry, I just added another quotation or so to my edit, thinking I had time before others read it. :)

best wishes,
Brett

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby onepence~2 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:58 pm

Kawthar could be understood to be the Writings

"The universe is pregnant with these manifold bounties, awaiting the hour when the effects of Its unseen gifts will be made manifest in this world, when the languishing and sore athirst will attain the living Kawthar of their Well-Beloved, and the erring wanderer, lost in the wilds of remoteness and nothingness, will enter the tabernacle of life, 61 and attain reunion with his heart’s desire. In the soil of whose heart will these holy seeds germinate? From the garden of whose soul will the blossoms of the invisible realities spring forth? Verily, I say, so fierce is the blaze of the Bush of love, burning in the Sinai of the heart, that the streaming waters of holy utterance can never quench its flame. Oceans can never allay this Leviathan’s burning thirst, and this Phoenix of the undying fire can abide nowhere save in the glow of the countenance of the Well-Beloved. Therefore, O brother! kindle with the oil of wisdom the lamp of the spirit within the innermost chamber of thy heart, and guard it with the globe of understanding, that the breath of the infidel may extinguish not its flame nor dim its brightness. Thus have We illuminated the heavens of utterance with the splendours of the Sun of divine wisdom and understanding, that thy heart may find peace, that thou mayest be of those who, on the wings of certitude, have soared unto the heaven of the love of their Lord, the All-Merciful."

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby BruceDLimber » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:21 am

Greetings!

I'm not familiar with the details of this and therefore can't comment further on it, but I do know that the Bab wrote a commentary on the Sur'ih of Kawthar.

(Whether this has even been translated into English I can't say, but you might want to explore this further to see whether it's available and if it answers any of your questions.)

Regards,

Bruce

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby AdibM » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:11 am

BruceDLimber wrote:(Whether this has even been translated into English I can't say, but you might want to explore this further to see whether it's available and if it answers any of your questions.)


I have not yet seen the Tafsir-i Surihyi Kawthar (Commentary on the Sura/Surih of Kawthar) translated into English, provisionally or otherwise, at least on the Internet. That might be a project for Dr. Stephen Lambden, who has translated works of the Bab before and holds a strong interest in His writings, or perhaps Todd Lawson, another Baha'i expert in Babism.

However, an Arabic manuscript of the commentary appears to be online here: http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/areprint/ba ... awthar.htm

Here's a little note on the commentary:

Tafsír-i-Súrih-i-Kawthar ("Commentary on the Chapter on Abundance"): The Báb wrote this commentary for Siyyid Yahyá Dárábí Vahíd while he was in Shiraz; it is the most important work revealed during the Shiraz period. Though the súrih is only a few lines in length, being one of the shortest in the Qur'án, the commentary on it is over two hundred pages in length. The work was widely distributed, and at least a dozen early manuscripts are extant. (ref)
"To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood." -- `Abdu'l-Bahá

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby onepence~2 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:17 pm

in reference to "He will have only one eye and on his head will be the word kufr in Arabic."

this rather long page ... but worth the read ...

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/GPB/ ... hlight#gr4

The formal assumption by the Báb of the authority of the promised Qá’im, in such dramatic circumstances and in so challenging a tone, before a distinguished gathering of eminent Shí’ah ecclesiastics, powerful, jealous, alarmed and hostile, was the explosive force that loosed a veritable avalanche of calamities which swept down upon the Faith and the people among whom it was born. It raised to fervid heat the zeal that glowed in the souls of the Báb’s scattered disciples, who were already incensed by the cruel captivity of their Leader, and whose ardor was now further inflamed by the outpourings of His pen which reached them unceasingly from the place of His confinement. It provoked a heated and prolonged controversy throughout the length and breadth of the land, in bazaars, masjids, madrisihs and other public places, deepening thereby the cleavage that had already sundered its people. Muhammad Sháh, at so perilous an hour, was meanwhile rapidly sinking under the weight of his physical infirmities. The shallow-minded Hájí Mírzá Aqásí, now the pivot of state affairs, exhibited a vacillation and incompetence that seemed to increase with every extension in the range of his grave responsibilities. At one time he would feel inclined to support the verdict of the ‘ulamás; at another he would censure their aggressiveness and distrust their assertions; at yet another, he would relapse into mysticism, and, wrapt in his reveries, lose sight of the gravity of the emergency that confronted him.

So glaring a mismanagement of national affairs emboldened the clerical order, whose members were now hurling with malignant zeal anathemas from their pulpits, and were vociferously inciting superstitious congregations to take up arms against the upholders of a much hated creed, to insult the honor of their women folk, to plunder their property and harass and injure their children. “What of the signs and prodigies,” they thundered before countless assemblies, “that must needs usher in the advent of the Qá’im? What of the Major and Minor Occultations? What of the cities of Jábulqá and Jábulsá? How are we to explain the sayings of Husayn-ibn-Rúh, and what interpretation should be given to the authenticated traditions ascribed to Ibn-i-Mihríyár? Where are the Men of the Unseen, who are to traverse, in a week, the whole surface of the earth? What of the conquest of the East and West which the Qá’im is to effect on His appearance? Where is the one-eyed Anti-Christ and the ass on which he is to mount? What of Súfyán and his dominion?” “Are we,” they noisily remonstrated, “are we to account as a dead letter the indubitable, the unnumbered traditions of our holy Imáms, or are we to extinguish with fire and sword this brazen heresy that has dared to lift its head in our land?”

To these defamations, threats and protestations the learned and resolute champions of a misrepresented Faith, following the example of their Leader, opposed unhesitatingly treatises, commentaries and refutations, assiduously written, cogent in their argument, replete with testimonies, lucid, eloquent and convincing, affirming their belief in the Prophethood of Muhammad, in the legitimacy of the Imáms, in the spiritual sovereignty of the Sáhibu’z-Zamán (the Lord of the Age), interpreting in a masterly fashion the obscure, the designedly allegorical and abstruse traditions, verses and prophecies in the Islamic holy Writ, and adducing, in support of their contention, the meekness and apparent helplessness of the Imám Husayn who, despite his defeat, his discomfiture and ignominious martyrdom, had been hailed by their antagonists as the very embodiment and the matchless symbol of God’s all-conquering sovereignty and power.

This fierce, nation-wide controversy ...

////
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dh note : ... we deduce there is commentary ... just need to find what has been written ... or perhaps one day to write more commentary

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:31 pm

"..... a pond called Kawthar, and he (saw) and the Muslims will gather there
and the Muslims will drink from that pond."

How can a billion Muslims gather around a pond?
The pond must represent something symbolically.

I was raised Christian and told that the stars would one day fall upon the earth.
Later, in school, I learned how huge the stars are when compared to the earth.
It would be impossible for even one star to find a place to land on the earth.
Besides, the earth would evaporate before the star could make contact.
Clearly, the fall of stars on the earth must be symbolic as is brilliantly explained
by Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Iqan.

Leaders, who were once stars of guidance in the heavens of their various religions,
fall to the earth and cease to be a true guide for mankind. Is there any doubt that
this is what has already happened?

-Peter

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby onepence~2 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:26 am

Dajjal

footnote 32 ...

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/nz/DB/db-21.html

32. “Here ends the history of the establishment of Shaykhísm, or at least of its unity, for, after the death of Siyyid Kázim-i-Rashtí, it became divided into two branches. One branch, under the name of Bábism, flowered as foreshadowed by the strength of the movement created by Shaykh Ahmad, thus fulfilling the expectations of the two masters, if one may believe their predictions. The other, under the leadership of Karím Khán-i-Qájár-i-Kirmání, will continue its struggles against the Shí’ite sect, but will always seek security in affecting the outer appearance Ithna-‘Asharisme. If, according to Karím Khán, the Báb and his followers are infamous and impious, for the Bábís, Karím Khán is the Anti-Christ or Dajjál foretold by Muhammad.” (A. L. M. Nicolas’ “Essai sur le Shaykhisme,” II, p. 31.) [ Back To Reference]

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///

dh note ... perhaps one day Karím Khán will not even be a footnote, ... a conquest so complete that the defeated adversary remains not even known in the most trivial pursuits

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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby brettz9 » Fri May 01, 2009 9:56 pm

Hello again someone,

Question #1

The Declaration of His Holiness the Bab, occurred on 1260 A.H., 1000 years after the occultation of the 12th Imam, so our own prophecies rely on such a belief in the Imamate.

As Baha'u'llah wrote:
All that thou hast heard regarding Muhammad the son of Hasan[34] - may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake - is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him.

(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 36)


However, as far as what happened to the 12th Imam, I know of no authoritative texts that speak to this question. There is the following "pilgrim's note" (like a Hadith, but we do not attach any authority to them since they are dependent on the recollection of the pilgrim):

...it will be the role of the Baha'is to vindicate the glory of the Imams, establish their spiritual position and significance. The important thing to remember about the 12th Imam is that he died - not disappeared - died.

(Attributed to Shoghi Effendi; not an official note)


Regardless, we believe that such references in the Scriptures and traditions to "Return" are figurative and not literal. The best Baha'i book that covers this subject (and using passages from the Qur'an or Bible) is the Kitab-i-Iqan, by Baha'u'llah: http://bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/iqan/

I'm not so familiar with the fine details of the prophecies and traditions, but since "Day of Judgment" is explained by Baha'u'llah as the coming of the Manifestation, perhaps such traditions referring to the Imam's coming before the Day of Judgment refer to the Bab's coming before the Day of Judgment of Baha'u'llah.

Question 2:

2. Do Bahais believe there can be female Manifestations of God?
If there can't be female Manifestations of God isnt this against the Bahai belief of equality of men and women?

He sat at the table and invited all the friends from America to dine with Him. At this point a lady asked, `Up to the present time, not a single woman has appeared as a Messenger from God. Why have all the Manifestations of God been men?' `Abdu'l-Bahá replied:
Although women are equal to men in abilities and capacities, there is no doubt that men are bolder and physically more powerful. This distinction is also apparent in the animal kingdom, for example among pigeons, sparrows, peacocks and others.

(Mahmud's Diary, Talk on July 11, 1912)


Although the above might seem like only a pilgrim's note (see above for a definition), the Universal House of Justice has stated about this book that it, "attaches great importance to this work which, as you may know, is regarded as a reliable account of `Abdu'l-Bahá's travels in the West and an authentic record of His utterances, whether in the form of formal talks, table talks or random oral statements."

I might mention that although the above text states "men are bolder" in other places, 'Abdu'l-Baha in a talk attributed to Him states that women have "greater moral courage than the man; she has also special gifts which enable her to govern in moments of danger and crisis." (Abdu'l-Bahá in London, 1982 U.K. edition, pp. 102-103)

While the following is about membership on the Universal House of Justice ('Abdu'l-Baha argued in other places to the effect that its restriction to men is related to the readiness of society: see http://bahai-library.com/?file=compilat ... apter=1#11 and http://bahai-library.org/writings/abdul ... ec-20.html ), I think you will find it relevant to this topic of female Manifestations as well:

"As regards the membership of the International House of Justice, Abdu'l-Bahá states in a Tablet that it is confined to men, and that the wisdom of it will be revealed as manifest as the sun in the future. In any case the believers should know that, as Abdu'l-Bahá Himself has explicitly stated that sexes are equal except in some cases, the exclusion of women from the International House of Justice should not be surprising. From the fact that there is no equality of functions between the sexes one should not, however, infer that either sex is inherently superior or inferior to the other, or that they are unequal in their rights."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, July 28, 1936: Women, A Compilation, p. 9, in Lights of Guidance, no. 2074)


So, while the lack of previous female Manifestations may be due to a different function in the nature of men and women (e.g., men being seen as mightier--appropriate perhaps for a Bringer of divine laws, especially in the relatively immature stages of humanity's development), this is not due to a lack of equality in spiritual station, and some have argued that the following quotation of Baha'u'llah may indicate that there will be female Manifestations in the future (though it could also be taken the other way):

Know thou moreover that in the Day of Revelation were He to pronounce one of the leaves to be the manifestation of all His excellent titles, unto no one is given the right to utter why or wherefore, and should one do so he would be regarded as a disbeliever in God and be numbered with such as have repudiated His Truth.

(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 185)


Question 3:

Baha'u'llah allows music as long as it is not used toward selfishness/passion or against propriety and dignity:

We have made it lawful for you to listen to music and singing. Take heed, however, lest listening thereto should cause you to overstep the bounds of propriety and dignity. Let your joy be the joy born of My Most Great Name, a Name that bringeth rapture to the heart, and filleth with ecstasy the minds of all who have drawn nigh unto God. We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high; make it not, therefore, as wings to self and passion. Truly, We are loath to see you numbered with the foolish.

(Kitab-i-Aqdas, par. 51)


'Abdu'l-Bahá has written that "Among certain nations of the East, music was considered reprehensible". Though the Qur'án contains no specific guidance on the subject, some Muslims consider listening to music as unlawful, while others tolerate music within certain bounds and subject to particular conditions.
There are a number of passages in the Bahá'í Writings in praise of music. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, for example, asserts that "music, sung or played, is spiritual food for soul and heart".

(Notes to the Kitab-i-Aqdas, no. 79)


There are no specific instructions as to types of allowable music (e.g., classical, rap, country, folk, etc. are all not forbidden as long as they follow the above), though as far as music inside of Baha'i Temples, this is restricted to unaccompanied chanting of the Scriptures (i.e., no instruments).

Question 4:

As far as a complete translation of various Writings of the Bab, I believe that this may be due to:

1) The laws of the Bayan were superceded by the laws of Baha'u'llah, except in a few cases where Baha'u'llah confirmed them (like the Badi calendar). The Bayan was, as described by Shoghi Effendi, to be "regarded primarily as a eulogy of the Promised One rather than a code of laws and ordinances designed to be a permanent guide to future generations".
2) As per the notes of the Kitab-i-Aqdas, no. 109 and no. 158 and the quotations they cite, the laws were meant to shock the institutions and awaken the people at the time, and many were never enforced. A translation would probably need to be heavily annotated to explain how laws such as the burning of books were not meant to be "a permanent guide to future generations." The Bab Himself made it clear that His laws were dependent on the immanent coming of Him Whom God Will Make Manifest, but the average English-speaking audience would not known this.
3) Many of the Writings of the Bab were focused on abstruse questions of primary interest only to a Muslim audience.
4) There is a greater priority on the teachings and laws relevant today, and a present lack of resources to deal as much as we would like with even those.

However, a selection of such Writings was made available at http://bahai-library.com/writings/bab/swb/ , and Shoghi Effendi also pointed out how his editing and translating the Dawn-breakers was mainly to allow Western believers to better appreciate the Bab's station and more ardently admire and love Him:

Indeed the chief motive actuating me to undertake the task of editing and translating Nabíl's immortal Narrative has been to enable every follower of the Faith in the West to better understand and more readily grasp the tremendous implications of His exalted station and to more ardently admire and love Him.

(World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 123)


Question 5:

I am not aware of any Writings (at least there aren't any I know of in English) which speak to detailed prophecies, outside of indicating that the next Manifestation of God will be persecuted, and that He will not come until at least 1000 solar years since the start of the Baha'i Revelation in 1852. See http://bahai9.com/wiki/Him_Who_will_be_ ... u_after_Me

best wishes,
Brett

AdibM
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Re: Questions about the Bahai Faith

Postby AdibM » Fri May 01, 2009 10:54 pm

brettz9 wrote:So, while the lack of previous female Manifestations may be due to a different function in the nature of men and women (e.g., men being seen as mightier--appropriate perhaps for a Bringer of divine laws, especially in the relatively immature stages of humanity's development), this is not due to a lack of equality in spiritual station, and some have argued that the following quotation of Baha'u'llah may indicate that there will be female Manifestations in the future (though it could also be taken the other way):

Know thou moreover that in the Day of Revelation were He to pronounce one of the leaves to be the manifestation of all His excellent titles, unto no one is given the right to utter why or wherefore, and should one do so he would be regarded as a disbeliever in God and be numbered with such as have repudiated His Truth.

(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 185)


To add to this particular part of Brent's excellent post, I'd like to point out that the original term used for "leaves" in this quote is "waraqah," which is understood to have a feminine connotation (similar to how "ghusn", or branch, in our Writings has a masculine connotation). I believe this is primarily where the idea of this quote hinting at future female Manifestations comes from.
"To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood." -- `Abdu'l-Bahá


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