some questions

All research or scholarship questions
lost one

some questions

Postby lost one » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:36 pm

to be a bahai

can u believe Imam Mahdi the son of Imam Hassan Al-askari is still alive since Bahallah verifies du'a nudba and uses it as a proof

can u believe that the first cyle was Mohammad (saw) (and thus the 12 months were his successors, the verse with 12 months thus can be abrogated with the bayan and bahaallah) and like Al-bayan says, Mohammad and his family, were the first before everyone and the best

can u look at bab and bahallah as establishing the call for Imam Mahdi the son of Imam Hasan Al-askari (as), and in this sense Bahallah is thoohural Imam, and Imam Mahdi (as) himsef, while the final end of establishing the justic of earth will be via Imam Mahdi (as) (since du'a nudba is verified by bahallah, the one talked to is refered to other then the Rasool but a reminder of the Rasool)

is there a bahai group that has continues succession from Efendi and not the house of guardian thing?

can we believe while the call Bahallah is the thooharal Imam Mahdi (as) but it is Mahdi (ajf) that will establish God's kingdom once and for all?

if we take it that the day of judgement has always been a reality existing even right now, can we yet believe in the last day, or is the last day the last day of each cycle and begining of each

thanks

Keyvan
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: some questions

Postby Keyvan » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:17 pm

the idea of the son of Imam al-Askari having lived in occultation was a MYTH by our beliefs.
we believe he died a normal death, and his "return" was Manifest in THE BAB

the son of Imam Hasan al-Askari thus has nothing to do with it

that myth was made up by the Shia Ummah as a means to keep something going once the living Divine Authority was interrupted

The Bab set the Calander to 19 months of 19 days

The Bab was Imam Mahdi, who ushered in the Sharia, by revealing the Allegory of the Day of Resurrection. He revealed that the Day of Resurrection was figurative for He Whom God Shall Make Manifest.
Baha'u'llah was the fulfillment of this. His very Presence constituted the dawn of that new Day

7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part there of that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3)

Imam Mahdi (The Bab) revealed:

"...the meaning of 'the Day of Resurrection' is the day of the appearance of the Tree of Reality...The meaning of 'the Day of Resurrection' in the sight of God and in the terminology of the people of truth is that, from the moment of the appearance of the Tree of Reality in every age and in every name, until the time of its disappearance, constitutes the Day of Resurrection."

-The Bayan, Unity 2, Chapter 7




remember, the Quran was PREPARATION for the Day of Resurrection. thus now that we are in it, things change pertaining to the destiny of this era

this Day lasts 1000 years

47. Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 22)


soon we will have this Kingdom of God yes, and live in the paradise of a golden age for mankind

the last day means a new cycle yes you are correct. this cycle (Dispensation) is very significant, hence the great rhetoric in the Quran for it pertains to the Kingdom of God on Earth



we are lead by the UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE

Baha'u'llah explained


O people of God! That which traineth the world is
Justice, for it is upheld by two pillars, reward and
punishment. These two pillars are the sources of life to
the world. Inasmuch as for each day there is a new
problem and for every problem an expedient solution,
such affairs should be referred to the House of Justice
that the members thereof may act according to the
needs and requirements of the time. They that, for the
sake of God, arise to serve His Cause, are the recipients
of divine inspiration from the unseen Kingdom. It is
incumbent upon all to be obedient unto them. All
matters of State should be referred to the House of
Justice, but acts of worship must be observed according
to that which God hath revealed in His Book.

(Baha'u'llah, The Tablet of Ishraqat, The Eight Ishraq)



by the provisions of the faith, a Universal House of Justice is perfectly capable of running without a living Guardian.

there are some groups that disputed this but they have drastically plummeted in following, and are pretty much defunct

Shoghi Effendi said this would happen


A winter of unprecedented severity will soon be upon you. Its storm-clouds are fast gathering on the horizon. Tempestuous winds will assail you from every side. The Light of the Covenant will be obscured through my departure. These mighty blasts, this wintry desolation, shall however pass away. The dormant seed will burst into fresh activity. It shall put forth its buds, shall reveal, in mighty institutions, its leaves and blossoms.

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 86)

Noor-Auli-Yaseen
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Postby Noor-Auli-Yaseen » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:39 pm

do you have any proof from Bahaallah or the bab, or Abdul Baha saying this?

in kitabal iqan Bahallah confirms du'a nudba

also, al-bayan explicity says Imam Mahdi is still alive and affirms the four naqeebs of Imam Mahdi (as) aswell

and i don't want opinions, I want facts from your sources, and agreed upon sources,

now, can u please answer if their is any group of bahais who have an appointed guardian right now

I read kitabal bayan, al-iqan, al-aqdas, and other works, supplications, etc, and I don't need a repetition of the day of judgement, i think most bahais don't even understand the view of what their own books say regarding that anyways


when u say last kingdom, what do u mean by that, this is the last cycle? the last Prophet was Bahaallah?

Keyvan
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Location: Los Angeles

Postby Keyvan » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:56 am

well i understand how you say you dont want this repeat. but by the way you formulated your questions it seemed clear that you misunderstood some things.
let alone your criticism of what Bahais know or not know is a charge you are not of a standing to make since you werent sure yourself


anyway


you asked questions of specific Books. so how about you refer to the specific PASSAGE so that we may refer to it and know what specifically you are talking about

and by Kingdom, we mean that this Kingdom is the ultimate destiny for the world. after this....who knows. maybe the next cycle will go on beyond this world to people we have yet to encounter..but that is of no matter and something we dont care to think about

our concern is of the here and now, fixing this world, where Divine Justice pours eternal

Noor-Auli-Yaseen
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Postby Noor-Auli-Yaseen » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:43 pm

ok some one please answer this:

Mírzá Muhammad `Alí 1852 - 1937, Abdul baha half brother have any successors through his sons? if so are they still claiming this right now?

is there any bahai group (covenat breakers u can call them), that have a successor from the family line of Bahallah?

( and keyvan, can u plz just stop responding)

majnun
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Contact:

Postby majnun » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:02 am

...

Paul
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Postby Paul » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:29 am

Sorry I joined in so late. It has been about a year from the last posting on this. But I thought I may be able to contribute. If there are any descendants of the family of Baha'u'llah alive, that does not change the fact that due to their faith status and other reasons none of them can be the next Guardian. As to the validity of the decisions of the Universal House of Justice, since Baha'i administrative principles are based on the vote of the majority of the membership present, absence of the chair or president of the House is not a detriment.

With Regards

Hasan
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Postby Hasan » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:55 am

majnun wrote:There is no god Keyvan.
wake up.
MJ.


Are you sure? :lol:

Keyvan
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Keyvan » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 pm

Noor-Auli-Yaseen wrote:ok some one please answer this:

Mírzá Muhammad `Alí 1852 - 1937, Abdul baha half brother have any successors through his sons? if so are they still claiming this right now?

is there any bahai group (covenat breakers u can call them), that have a successor from the family line of Bahallah?

( and keyvan, can u plz just stop responding)





WHY , because i answer your questions in full and with tact? you try to make a charge against the faith and i show that youre wrong and you dont want to hear that?
great..

anyway


the answer is NO. they reside today as a tiny residual religious community around Haifa, marrying within their own and pretty much indistinguishable fromt he Muslim community.
there is no leadership.
they are ever shrinking in numbers to the point where they will fade out

every single member of the seed of Baha'u'llah has fallen out, into a different path. in brief, no one knows what happened to them, but they did not proclaim any religious station. they know of their genetic roots but they do not care for them.


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