Depicting Baha'u'llah in cartoons

[Andrew]

Would Baha'i's take to the streets and threaten violence if images of Baha'u'llah were to be depicted in tabloid newspaper's satirical cartoons?

[Jonah]

For those unfamiliar with this developing story, here's a link to a BBC overview: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4677976.stm">Q&A: The Muhammad cartoons row</a>.

-Jonah

[Hasan]

Would Baha'i's take to the streets and threaten violence if images of Baha'u'llah were to be depicted in tabloid newspaper's satirical cartoons?

Andrew, I think violence is not an option for we bahá'ís, but we would surely protest and do efforts to amend that situation if happen.

[brettz9]

Baha'is (at least those remotely familiar with our institutional directives or our Writings which mention that holy war has been blotted out from God's Book) would surely do what they have been doing in Iran where the clergy does not restrict itself to mocking or belittling our Faith, but uses their powers to knock down Baha'i sacred sites, deprive people of basic civil, economic, cultural and social rights, and kills its followers: restrain themselves and even show love to their oppressors.

[onepence]

"Everyday, newspapers throughout the world libel not only Islam but everything that the Arab world stands for that is principled and just."

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.a ... yId=124073

substitute the words Islam and Arab for the words

Baha'i and America
{respectively}

and you have my viewpoint now for a long long time ...
for the most part i vote with my pocketbook ... don't buy the mainstream magazines or tv for that matter ...

found it just as easy to let the Administrative Order to handle the "free press" .... we do have some sort of public relations office ?!?!!!! ... ... ...
... .... we have been asked to write our representatives in congress ... ... ... so in the event of mainstream "attacks" on our Faith I am sure the Administrative Order can, has, and will effectivellt discharge their sacred responsablities and, God willing, we all will abide by His bidding.

oneness
dh

"Everyday, newspapers throughout the world libel not only Islam but everything that the Arab world stands for that is principled and just."

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.a ... yId=124073

[Guest]

dang it ... i really need to register to this website/forum so i can edit my posts ... lost post this thread should edit and add the bold text so the post would read

... in the past, on various issues, we have been asked to write our representatives in congress ...

anyway guess i had better register soon

dh

[majnun]

Maybe this is the Wrath, felt inside, by
those who idolized a name, the name of
a messenger, instead of being obediant to the One who
sends down theese messengers.

MJ.

[Guest]

AGAIN, MAJNUN IS DENIGRATING ANYTHING THAT IS ARABIC, BE IT THE QURAN, THE BAB OR MUHAMAD.

WILL THE MODERATOR INTERVENE UNLESS HE ALSO APPROVES WITH HIS DEAFENING SILENCE???

THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED SUCH CONTEMPTIBLE & MALICIOUS BAHA'IS!!!

REGARDS

[note from moderator: see my response below. -Jonah]

[onepence]

AGAIN, MAJNUN IS DENIGRATING ANYTHING THAT IS ARABIC, BE IT THE QURAN, THE BAB OR MUHAMAD.

WILL THE MODERATOR INTERVENE UNLESS HE ALSO APPROVES WITH HIS DEAFENING SILENCE???

THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED SUCH CONTEMPTIBLE & MALICIOUS BAHA'IS!!!

REGARDS

I can understand your fustration in being confronted with a dose of reality that is inconginous to your thought process ... if you pay close enough attention, you will notice how often there are people places and things{reality/ies} that are totally "DENIGRATING", for example, in the current popular media thousands, nay millions and perhaps billions of inappropriate words and images of sexuality are constantly on a daily bases being published that is,imho, "DENIGRATING" the entire human race ... ... ... ... so I ask you .... what makes you chose to pick on poor mj? ... ... ... ... is it that mj is low and thou art of a high degree ... ... ... why pick upon the lowly {obvioulsy an easy target} ... ... ... what makes you think that this Baha'i site would chose to do anything other than faithfully follow the Words of Baha'u'llah ... ... ....

imho ... ... ... the individuals whom come to this site ... ... ... be they friendly or foeish, registered or guest, ... ... ... have the basic mental capacity to ignore/shun those posters they personally find offensive ... ... ... ... if you notice I seldom if ever have responded to mj ... ... no big deal ... ... ... if i want to I will and if I don't I won't ... ... ... ... ... I certainly do hope to avoid a he said/she said type of debate with you or even him in this matter ... ... ... ...

perhaps a better question is there a way to put posters on ignore at this site ... ... .... if there is no ignore button perhaps we might want to make that suggestion ... ... ... I think an ignore button might be a good idea ... ... ... perhaps you and i might discuss other site suggestions and make a brief proposal to the mods ... ... ... ... ... any feedback by you and others would be appreciated

what's in your heart

oneness
dh

[Jonah]

Regarding Majnun's posting and the response to it in bold-face red. Did I miss something? Here's the only post of Majnun's I see:

Maybe this is the Wrath, felt inside, by those who idolized a name, the name of a messenger, instead of being obediant to the One who sends down these messengers.

And the response in red:

MAJNUN IS DENIGRATING ANYTHING THAT IS ARABIC, BE IT THE QURAN, THE BAB OR MUHAMAD. ... THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED SUCH CONTEMPTIBLE & MALICIOUS BAHA'IS!!!

My response:
<ol><li>I don't see where Majnun denigrates Arabic, the Qur'an, or Muhammad here. It seems to me he's "denigrating" those who "idolize a name," i.e. certain practicing Muslims. While I don't necessarily agree with this statement of Majnun's -- I am aware that the Qur'an wholly forbids depictions of the Prophet and hence the Muslim anger to this situation seems scripturally-justified -- I don't see that it is a statement I need to censor.</li><li>I don't know if Majnun is a Baha'i, and I don't think he says whether or not he is.</li>
</ol>
-Jonah (moderator)

[Keyvan]

i do see this a lot in majnuns post, though i dont understand what he wrote here.
perhaps hes inferring something that only guest has picked up on so far.


but i do think majnun goes way out of line.
anytime ANYONE starts talking about the Quran he basically wants to throw it out.

EVEN THOUGH THE GUARDIAN HAS SAID WE MUST STUDY THE QURAN FOR AN ADEQUATE UNDERSTANDING OF THE WRITINGS OF BAHA'U'LLAH

the Guardian would certainly advise, and even urge the friends to make a thorough study of the Qur'án, as the knowledge of this sacred Scripture is absolutely indispensable for every believer who wishes to adequately understand and intelligently read the writings of Bahá'u'lláh.

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian, Directives 171)

and THEN when someone wants to point that out to the fact to majnun, he says that we are not to take letters "on behalf of the Guardian" are not to be taken seriously, EVEN THOUGH....

"Instructions sent on behalf of the Guardian are binding, as are the words of the Guardian; although of course, they are not the Guardian's words.

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 313)

he has SIGNED AND REVEWED ALLL those letters

and then majnun just stops responding, and a while later he acts like this never happened

[majnun]

<b>note from moderator: I have chosen to edit, rather than delete, the following posting. I have marked each edit. -J.W.</b>

Salam,

[deleted paragraph discussing "negroes" and "cockroaches". -J.W.]

I did read the bible (genesis, etc)
and because what the Bab and A.A wrote or said,
I know it is obsolete.
Buddah, obsolete.
Bagavad Gita, obsolete.
The Gospels, obsolete.

The Quran, I recited, and did the 17 daily rakas,
from bism to walladaaaaaaaallllllleeeeen, knowing the sense of every verse. It is obsolete.
Thinking that every salah you make is like putting money in your
bank account for your afterlife, ah, so childish. It is a fun discipline tho,
good for the tummy shape, a great exercise.

The Sikhs is a long scripture to read, it is obsolete too,
and so many others.
I have all those books, but i dont put my nose into it now.
You may think I am a traitor towards the Qur'an, but for me,
it means not much now.

The Bayan, hmm, it is an eye opener, but
many things in it are obsolete now, because
it was written for people with a limited mentality,
they had no telephones,
no televisions, rarely a book, no personal hot baths.
In fact they lived like cowboys, except they
never boarded a train.

The Bahai basic writings, hmm, it is a bit ahead of
our times, actually, but in a few centuries they will
become obsolete too. If you do not beleive me, read
what the Gardian told miss Virginia Orbison in 1956,
about the Baha'i scriptures and translations of them.
(see pilgrim's notes on this wonderful website.)

(Orbison is the first bahai member to induce the Faith in the Balearic Islands)

The Tao seems to resist because it has a particular
charm.

Knowing and having recited the Quran may help
the comprehension of the Bahai writings, like if you
know the story of Yusuf, wich touches emotions and
the peculiar destiny of prophet Joseph and his father Jacob,
surely, parallel links you will make
more quickly, without having to search in other books.

But put yourself in the shoes of a guy in China or in
Korea, should he be obliged to recite the Quran in order
to be touched internally by the nectar of Baha'u'llah ?
I dont think so. And all these Japanese initiated by
misses Alexander and Dr Augur and others, did they
recite the Quran ? I dont think so.
It was a great scripture adapted to the limitations of
people of that era. The distortions it can induce now
are very very dangerous. A student in Egypt told me that
really, those women did cut off their whole hands by
themselves with a knife. Oh how stupid ! How can any
sane person can beleive such an atrocity ?

People become what they see. They IMITATE others.
Canadian kids play hockey in the streets because that is
what television shows them. In the East, kids play soccer,
because this is what is shown there. Cat Stevens make young
muslims girls to play soccer in his schools to pretend a certain
evolution for the female race. The result (fruits) of all these imitations is
nothing at all, if not loosing precious time imitating others.

We cannot accuse the "sky" to write erronous things,
but a time comes, and the "sky" Itself says it via Baha and A.A.
that those scriptures will become obsolete, invalidated, superseded
by the new ones.

I aggre with the Gardian, to know and to
have studied the Qur'an does ease comprehension, but you
cannot make this one line adressed to one beleiver a rule
for all to observe meticulously. I this would have been the case, the Gardian, or the UHJ would have given orders to put this "law" it in the Aqdas. And IT IS NOT.

A time come when we have to put aside our religious
past collectively, to leave it behing us, to move forward.
The move initiated by Dr Khalifa was a good idea to wake up
people who were spiritually dead, but look at what people do
with it. They advocate Qur'an ALONE, and nothing else, instead
of following Dr Rashad's concept of putting invented hadiths besides.

He never intended to lead people toward a Sunni narrow minded road,
on the contrary, he used examples from Ali and the Imams in his
many theories (the appendixes and so on).

This means that Submitters touch Qur'an only, without ever knowing
the Balagha, and what the 12 imams gave us. What a stupid move !
The worst of this sort are the Sunni stubborns who rejected
Ali and the descendants. For us it would be good to have
a copy of the Balagha on our desk, while it is cited in the
writings on some occasions. You can find a Bahagha in
arabic or in english in any specialised store in a town.
Talking to a submitter who's brain is filled with calculations around
the number 19 miracle, it is like talking to a rock, to a stone.

Today the Quran, like the Gospels, spiritually, is an inneficient medecine.
Look at the results : a bunch of young excitables ready to
burn and blow-up cities and trains and planes and automobiles,
simply because of a cartoon, a scratch on their idol, even
if idolizing the messenger is intensively prohibited in the Quran itself.
It takes simply a poverty situation, a rarity of jobs, to induce riots
and hate toward the Americans in the heads of young readers of the
Qur'an. Any tiny thing will lit up the inner rages. What a shame !

Any person with an atom of intelligence would not give a loaded
gun to a child, but is it not what do they do ? They give adolescents a green scarf with a loaded gun ! How primitive this is. But again, they imitate what they see on TV. In some eastern countries they play just like indians and cowboys. WOW !

To discuss publically about what is in the Quran and
what it means, only shows your personal background and
how you cling to it. Starting such discussions pulls
cockroaches from miles away. Starting Quranic tea parties
on this forum excites not the bahais, except you and a few
cockroaches.

[deleted paragraph containing mostly expletives and sexual insults. -J.W.]

Asalam aleykom

Majnun

[majnun]

.
A more polite term to describe old scriptures is :

Dry bones.

Here is what the Master said to Breakwell:

Explanation of the Valley of Dry Bones, 37th chapter of Ezekial.

The Master said this meant the River of those who went before; that is to say, the religious laws of each preceding prophet are annulled by the succeeding one and are as dry bones. In the time of Christ the commands of Moses were as dry bones, and in this time all previous laws are as dry bones, but which are to be refreshed by the Great River of this time, and are to be clothed with the new sinews (= muscles, tendons) of Life by this Revelation. When the Blessed Perfection came, all previous things became as dry bones.

This is clear and precise.
more simple than
my spaghetti styled explanations.
Quran = dry bones.

MJ.

[Keyvan]

all you ever do anytime ANYONE EVER MENTIONS the Quran, is talk down saying we dont need it. who are you to decide what is usage for better understanding the teachings of the current Dispensation, and what is primary use? NO ONE HERE has ever used the Quran for primary use. everyone knows that this is a new era.
and you speak as though you can read it and thats that. no the Guardian said INDISPENSIBLE

KHALIFA???! youre going to sit there and tell us the "wisdom of khalifa" lets put rashad khalifa very simply majnun. he was a translator, sure a good one. but him being engulfed in the text of the Quran, giving lectures and making commentary gave his head a sense of "mastery" and arrogance.
he then decared himself a messenger of GOD! how can this be? in his explaination of seal of the Prophets, he REVERSED the roles of Prophet and Messenger, that is, nabi and rasul. he made messenger the lesser term and prophet the greater term.
that is to say he put Joshua and Solomon to the same rank as Jesus and Moses
this contradicts everything we know about jewish history, muslim history, and the most widely accepted hadiths
any idiot can read the Quran and see the distinct grouping difference between the greater Divine ones and the lesser leaders of hte congregations.
dont you see? HE HAD TO RULE OUT ALL THE HADITHS. to accept a single one of them would rule out his whole claim and he would have no followers.
and here you are putting the violator of Aqdas:37 on a pedestal
the 19 Phenomenon was taken from us and a Muslim scholar like 800 years ago
and his translations are OK. he translated it interperetively, with a "light-hearted" reading, and they arent true.
this way he could scoop up a lot of western followers who wanted the G rated version of the Quran.

the Quran has been given historical misunderstanding. what you see in the streets is not Islam. its not the Quran. its of a people who pervert the text. i have NO NEED to appologize for the Quran to ANYONE. i have NO SHAME of this sacred text and i jump at the moment to correct peoples misconceptions

[Jonah]

Another thread disintegrates. Keyvan gets the last word. -Jonah