"SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

All research or scholarship questions
RobertD
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:37 pm

"SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby RobertD » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:44 pm

Suggestion: A two-hour film be produced on the life of 'Abdu'l-Baha titled "Servant of Glory". There would be a number of flashbacks, including the executing of The Bab (NOT showing His Holiness), persecutiong of Babis and Baha'is in Iran, etc. The actor must have blue eyes or wear blue contacts (or use of CGI to change brown eyes to blue), and speak English (although the Master did not speak English). The film would be made independently, would include Baha'i actors and actresses working for very low pay. Extras would be Persian Baha'is from the U.S. and Canada and England. The cost of the film would be about 15 million: 10 million to make and 5 million for promotion. Submit film to all "indie" film festivals. Film will be shown in "select" cities (i.e. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston, Seattle), and full-page ads in those cities advertising the film. Then the film would be leased very inexpensively to TV cable networks, and finally on DVDs. The DVDs would be used a a major prospecting tool; to be used at Baha'i Firesides, and offered as a "free DVD offer" in teaching campaigns. The film would be given to TV stations for FREE in third-world countries. If you know ANYBODY in the film business, let them know about this idea. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

brettz9
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby brettz9 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:29 am

I wish you extremely well in your endeavors, but if, as it seems you might be wishing to do, we are not to portray 'Abdu'l-Baha or even the Guardian (or other members of the Holy Household as I also recall reading) in art:

...an examination of the letters of the beloved Guardian makes it absolutely clear that it is not permissible to portray on the stage the figure of the Manifestation of God, nor even of the Master... The Universal House of Justice considers it inappropriate to represent the Guardian of the Faith as a character in a play. The use of light, either of great intensity or in different colours, needs your careful consideration. If the use of light in any way at all suggests a personification of the Manifestation of God it should not be used, but if it can be done without in any way giving the impression that the Prophet is being represented or personified then there is no objection to its use. As to the portrayal of living persons, there are occasions when this may be done, such as spontaneous or local presentations for the purpose of teaching or describing events, but generally it is unwise to do so.

(Universal House of Justice, 12 August 1975 [70] at http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file= ... nguage=#70 )


best wishes,
Brett

RobertD
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:37 pm

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby RobertD » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:25 pm

Brett,

I wouldn't put too much into what a secretary wrote.


brettz9 wrote:I wish you extremely well in your endeavors, but if, as it seems you might be wishing to do, we are not to portray 'Abdu'l-Baha or even the Guardian (or other members of the Holy Household as I also recall reading) in art:

...an examination of the letters of the beloved Guardian makes it absolutely clear that it is not permissible to portray on the stage the figure of the Manifestation of God, nor even of the Master... The Universal House of Justice considers it inappropriate to represent the Guardian of the Faith as a character in a play. The use of light, either of great intensity or in different colours, needs your careful consideration. If the use of light in any way at all suggests a personification of the Manifestation of God it should not be used, but if it can be done without in any way giving the impression that the Prophet is being represented or personified then there is no objection to its use. As to the portrayal of living persons, there are occasions when this may be done, such as spontaneous or local presentations for the purpose of teaching or describing events, but generally it is unwise to do so.

(Universal House of Justice, 12 August 1975 [70] at http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file= ... nguage=#70 )


best wishes,
Brett

brettz9
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby brettz9 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:17 pm

Hello Robert,

While a secretary may have prepared the words, according to http://bahai-library.com/uhj/authenticity.texts.html , such letters sent out have all been authorized by the Universal House of Justice, with at least a majority of the members initialing and with all letters sent from the Department of the Secretariat with its signature being authorized by the House of Justice.

"Drafts of letters which contain newly formulated policies are consulted upon and approved during a meeting of the House of Justice; correspondence dealing with previously enunciated policies, or with matters of a routine nature, are prepared, as delegated by the House of Justice, by its Secretariat and initialed by at least the majority of the members of the House of Justice before being dispatched. All letters written over the signature of the Department of the Secretariat are authorized by the Universal House of Justice."


Note from the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, a majority is sufficient for the document to be considered as infallible:

That which this body, whether unanimously or by a majority doth carry, that is verily the truth and the purpose of God Himself. Whoso doth deviate therefrom is verily of them that love discord, hath shown forth malice, and turned away from the Lord of the Covenant. By this House is meant that Universal House of Justice which is to be elected from all countries, that is from those parts in the East and West where the loved ones are to be found, after the manner of the customary elections in Western countries such as those of England.

(Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, pp. 19-20 at http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/a ... ll.html#19 )


There is a different status to documents prepared by the Research Department as noted in the same letter and also in http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file= ... f_guardian

The latter may also be of interest regarding the fact that letters on behalf of the Guardian are also "authoritative".

The infallibility of the House of Justice promised in our Writings (and our freedom to turn to it, esp. through our Assemblies) as well as their choice to delegate to others to prepare documents on its behalf would be rather meaningless if they were relinquishing control in the process. As made clear above, thankfully for our unity, they are not.

best wishes,
Brett

Keyvan
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby Keyvan » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:51 am

I hope Ruhi book 8 ("The Covenant") makes mention of these quotes explaining how "on behalf of" is authoritative and approved by the pertaining Infallible Institution, and is NOT based on the personal opinions of "secretaries" - sheesh, it seems like people only downplay and disregard letters "on behalf of" when such a letter restricts on what they'd otherwise very much like to be doing.

Keyvan
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby Keyvan » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:00 am

btw RobertD = Darrick Evenson alias ....right?

BruceDLimber
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:34 pm
Location: Rockville, Maryland, USA

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby BruceDLimber » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:55 am

Keyvan wrote:I hope Ruhi book 8 ("The Covenant") makes mention of these quotes explaining how "on behalf of" is authoritative and approved by the pertaining Infallible Institution, and is NOT based on the personal opinions of "secretaries"...


An excellent point, and I hope you've already forwarded this comment to the NSA or will immediately do so: this is obviously the best way to help insure that does indeed happen!

Regards,

Bruce

Keyvan
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby Keyvan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:21 am

Yeah I just contacted my friend who did a pre-publication book 8 course to see if its included already.

I don't know if the NSA would be right for it. It would make more sense to contact someone at the Ruhi Institute yeah? Anyone have a contact for that?

Keyvan
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby Keyvan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:03 am

just heard back from my friend who took the pre-publication version of book 8. he said that this specific point is not the book 8 he took. i guess ill contact them.

RobertD
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:37 pm

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby RobertD » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:50 pm

Brent,

Sorry, I don't "buy" the argument that the infalliblity of the House is conferred upon the Office of the Secretariat. I once had a letter from the Secretariat that said that Muhammad did not have more wife than one, because that was against the Law of God. But, the person who wrote that was in grave historical error.

Even if the House "authorized" a letter that said that the Master cannot be shown in "plays" do I think that is "infallible" guidance? I do not. The Secretaries of Shoghi Effendi wrote that abortion was "absolutely forbidden in the Cause" yet the House interpreted that to mean "absolutely permitted but discouraged". So, either the Secretaries of the Guardian were wrong, or the House is, or they both are. All can't be infallible.

Even the talks of 'Abdu'l-Baha are not wishout error, since He once said that under the Law of Moses a thief's hand could be cut off, and that was never a part of the law of Moses, nor a practice of any of the Jewish sects.

Also, the argument that "if two people quarrel, they are both wrong" is absurd, since 'Abdu'l-Baha quarelled with His brother Muhammad Ali Effendi, and the Master never said "We are both wrong". Rather, He excommunicated Muhammad Ali Effendi and his entire extended family.



brettz9 wrote:Hello Robert,

While a secretary may have prepared the words, according to http://bahai-library.com/uhj/authenticity.texts.html , such letters sent out have all been authorized by the Universal House of Justice, with at least a majority of the members initialing and with all letters sent from the Department of the Secretariat with its signature being authorized by the House of Justice.

"Drafts of letters which contain newly formulated policies are consulted upon and approved during a meeting of the House of Justice; correspondence dealing with previously enunciated policies, or with matters of a routine nature, are prepared, as delegated by the House of Justice, by its Secretariat and initialed by at least the majority of the members of the House of Justice before being dispatched. All letters written over the signature of the Department of the Secretariat are authorized by the Universal House of Justice."


Note from the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, a majority is sufficient for the document to be considered as infallible:

That which this body, whether unanimously or by a majority doth carry, that is verily the truth and the purpose of God Himself. Whoso doth deviate therefrom is verily of them that love discord, hath shown forth malice, and turned away from the Lord of the Covenant. By this House is meant that Universal House of Justice which is to be elected from all countries, that is from those parts in the East and West where the loved ones are to be found, after the manner of the customary elections in Western countries such as those of England.

(Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, pp. 19-20 at http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/a ... ll.html#19 )


There is a different status to documents prepared by the Research Department as noted in the same letter and also in http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file= ... f_guardian

The latter may also be of interest regarding the fact that letters on behalf of the Guardian are also "authoritative".

The infallibility of the House of Justice promised in our Writings (and our freedom to turn to it, esp. through our Assemblies) as well as their choice to delegate to others to prepare documents on its behalf would be rather meaningless if they were relinquishing control in the process. As made clear above, thankfully for our unity, they are not.

best wishes,
Brett

RobertD
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:37 pm

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby RobertD » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:53 pm

Keyvan,

btw=wrong! :lol:


Keyvan wrote:btw RobertD = Darrick Evenson alias ....right?

BritishBahai
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: UK

Re: "SERVANT OF GLORY" film as way to produce entry-by-troops

Postby BritishBahai » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:46 am

lol @ this thread.
"Entry by Troops" is going to happen regardless. Its God's will...

RobertD wrote:Suggestion: A two-hour film be produced on the life of 'Abdu'l-Baha titled "Servant of Glory". There would be a number of flashbacks, including the executing of The Bab (NOT showing His Holiness), persecutiong of Babis and Baha'is in Iran, etc. The actor must have blue eyes or wear blue contacts (or use of CGI to change brown eyes to blue), and speak English (although the Master did not speak English). The film would be made independently, would include Baha'i actors and actresses working for very low pay. Extras would be Persian Baha'is from the U.S. and Canada and England. The cost of the film would be about 15 million: 10 million to make and 5 million for promotion. Submit film to all "indie" film festivals. Film will be shown in "select" cities (i.e. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston, Seattle), and full-page ads in those cities advertising the film. Then the film would be leased very inexpensively to TV cable networks, and finally on DVDs. The DVDs would be used a a major prospecting tool; to be used at Baha'i Firesides, and offered as a "free DVD offer" in teaching campaigns. The film would be given to TV stations for FREE in third-world countries. If you know ANYBODY in the film business, let them know about this idea. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
"I have desired only what Thou didst desire, and love only what Thou dost love"


Return to “Discussion”