UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

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Truth
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UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby Truth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:26 am

Hey All,

Maybe i was dreaming or imagining things, but i remember sometime last year (i think), there was a communication from the UHJ, mentioning a change in the events that occur should a non believer attend the 19 day feast. Rather than them leave the feast during the administrative portion, the administrative discussion is watered down/kept to a minimum?

Does anyone else at all remember this? Or am i just extremely deydrated from the fast, and am imagining things. My mother remembers it too.

If anyone does remember, can someone please send me a link to the communication! Thanks!
No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

Truth
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby Truth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:47 am

All good, found it in my email archives! It was in a letter addressed 17th May 2009.

Heh, looks like the brahmi suppliments i'm taking for my memory are working! :)
No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

brettz9
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby brettz9 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:02 am

Was this a change? I thought that was always the policy...

Brett

BruceDLimber
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby BruceDLimber » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:28 am

This letter does change the policy somewhat, Brett.

While it's now become permissible to invite non-Baha'is to attend a Feast, if they're presesnt the administrative portion is to be largely restricted to ordinary news announcements and such and shouldn't address sensitive or controversial topics.

Regards,

Bruce

brettz9
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby brettz9 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:08 am

I'd like to see the letter. I doubt Baha'is are encouraged to invite non-Baha'is to Feast, since that is the one occasion where Baha'is can discuss administrative matters and make recommendations to the Assembly. Maybe what changed was that if someone did invite non-Baha'is or they showed up, they could continue with an administrative portion as long as it wasn't sensitive?

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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:56 am

I thought the policy was for everyone to fold their arms and frown at the intruder.

coatofmanycolours
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:00 am

...also, everyone missed the spelling mistake. The references were about nun-Baha'is, not non-Baha'is. Nun-Baha'is are easily recognized by their long black habits and are often seen chatting together in restaurants and cafes in the nun-smoking area.

brettz9
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby brettz9 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:19 am

I thought the policy was for everyone to fold their arms and frown at the intruder.


No, but that might happen if someone shows up to delay the Naw Ruz fast breaking dinner...

Brett

coatofmanycolours
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:44 am

brettz9 wrote:
I thought the policy was for everyone to fold their arms and frown at the intruder.


No, but that might happen if someone shows up to delay the Naw Ruz fast breaking dinner...

Brett


True, and back-biting might take on a new meaning. Someone might decide to eat the guy.

Truth
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby Truth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:03 pm

Hey Brett,

i forwarded you the email. You're pretty much spot on. We're not to invite them, but should they appear, we are to basically water down our administrative portion, not elimiate it entirely (or send them out of the room).
No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

Truth
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:19 am
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby Truth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:05 pm

brettz9 wrote:
I thought the policy was for everyone to fold their arms and frown at the intruder.


No, but that might happen if someone shows up to delay the Naw Ruz fast breaking dinner...

Brett


Fasting on Naw Ruz day?
No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

coatofmanycolours
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby coatofmanycolours » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:45 pm

Fasting on Naw Ruz day?

Well, this year, Naw Ruz falls on a Jamal (day of the week), but that day begins a moment after Jalal which ends at sunset. Since most people don't think of the day ending at sunset, it will seem as if Jamal is a continuation of Jalal, hence the confusion.

I love the New Day Calendar because it has 19 boxes to show the days, so you can see the Baha'i month in a glance. It shows days of the week with the Arabic names as well as your language of choice. It also shows sunrise and sunset for where you live. IT KNOWS WHERE YOU LIVE!!!!!

-Peter Gardner

http://software.filestube.com/software, ... endar.html

Code to put the link on a website:
<a href="http://software.filestube.com/software,870f97d8,New+Day+Calendar.html">New Day Calendar</a>

pilgrimbrent
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby pilgrimbrent » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:03 pm

Brett, the letter is dated 17 May 2009 and you can find it on the USBNC.ORG website under communications from the House of Justice.

It does not say that the administrative portion is to be watered down. I read it to mean that non-Baha'is can now be accommodated at this portion of the Feast. Only matters that are particularly sensitive should not be engaged in when non-Baha'is are present. To me, this means the great majority of feasts are OK. How often are sensitive matters discussed? One would hope that Baha'is consult lovingly even when there is a diversity of opinion.

Anyway, yes, it is a change of policy.

Brent

brettz9
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Re: UHJ Letter in regards to non believers at 19 day feasts

Postby brettz9 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:27 pm

In that case, that is particularly interesting... Maybe it also gives signs on how a Baha'i government of the future might work. Remember that the (unique) purpose of the Feast (as opposed to devotional gatherings) is really for being able to make proposals to the Local Assembly:

The main purpose of the Nineteen Day Feasts is to enable individual believers to offer any suggestion to the Local Assembly, which in its turn will pass it to the National Spiritual Assembly. The Local Assembly is, therefore, the proper medium through which local Bahá'í communities can communicate with the body of the national representatives. The Convention should be regarded as a temporary gathering, having certain specific functions to perform during a limited period of time. Its status is thus limited in time to the Convention sessions, the function of consultation at all other times being vested in the entire body of the believers through the Local Spiritual Assemblies.

(In a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, 18 November 1933 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada, at http://bahai-library.com/compilation_ni ... sultation1 )


...so I wonder what implications that might have on non-Baha'is being able to participate in such a system.

(Btw, the above link also has other subsequent quotations saying similar things.)

There are a number of quotations about how non-Bahai's should not be allowed to attend Feast, including from on behalf of Shoghi Effendi (see http://bahai-library.com/compilation_ni ... trictions1 ), though I guess that has either changed or been nuanced (I can't access the letter here).

Brett


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