Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

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Jonah
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Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

Postby Jonah » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:26 pm

A friend online, who wishes to remain anonymous, has some marriage questions she can't find easy answers to. If anyone has any insights, she and I would most appreciate your feedback. Thank you! She writes:

Allahu'-Abha, I have so many questions and sorry if I am asking all at once.

I am getting married to a non-Baha'i who is coming to United State from Iran; in order for him to stay here legally we need to have a court marriage for his paper work. As I read through the website I understood that the Baha'i marriage is recognized as a standing marriage in the States and if it is accepted for his paper work we do not need to go to court and get married there.

  1. If it is not approved with the NVC then should the court and the Baha'i marriage be in the same day?
  2. As I understood and he does not care to have an Islamic marriage if we just marry in a Baha’i way it is fine correct?
  3. As the law in our country, Baha’i marriage is not accepted in future if we decide to go visit Iran then probably we need to be married in an Islamic way is it ok to get married in Islamic way later? If not and we need to make this decision now then I think both marriages should be within 24 hours?
  4. I know may be the answer to all these questions is to consult with our local LSA, the problem is it is not announced yet and if I ask these questions I do not want them to think we are engaged as he is not here yet. Please at least let me know if we need to have all 3 in the same day?
  5. Can we have these marriages in one day and have the party in a different day?
  6. As I read through the website I understood that we do not need to exchange dowry as it is not recognize in the United State yet, but if I am aware of it and this is one of the principle in the Kitabe Aghdas what should we do?
  7. Does the 95 days apply to our case?

onepence
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Re: Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

Postby onepence » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:58 am

Allah'u'Abha

1281. Summary of Bahá'í Requirements Concerning Marriages with Followers of Other Religions

http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_ ... er=2#n1281

"In your letter of 1st July 1979 you requested the Universal House of Justice to provide you with a statement on the Bahá'í requirements concerning marriages with followers of other Faiths. The House of Justice has instructed us to send you the following summary.

1. When a Bahá'í is marrying a non-Bahá'í, and the non-Bahá'í wishes to have the ceremony of his (or her) own religion, the Bahá'í party may take part in it under the following conditions:


Page 385


1.1 That all concerned, including the officiating priest, know that he is a Bahá'í.

1.2 That he does not, by having the ceremony, renounce his faith.

1.3 That he does not undertake any vow to act contrary to Bahá'í principles (such as to bring up the children in another Faith).

1.4 That the ceremony be held on the same day as the Bahá'í ceremony, either before or after it.

2. If a civil ceremony is required by law in addition to the two religious ceremonies, all three ceremonies must be held on the same day.

3. If a Bahá'í has the marriage ceremony of another religion and, in so doing, violates any of the above requirements, he is liable to loss of his voting rights.

4. If voting rights are removed and the offender requests reinstatement, they may be restored if the Assembly is satisfied that the believer is repentant, subject to the following conditions:

4.1 If the Bahá'í dissimulated his faith or undertook a vow contrary to Bahá'í principles in order to have the ceremony of another religion, and if the holding of the ceremony was dependent upon such an act, he must dissolve the marriage. His voting rights may then be restored, but, if he still wishes to be married to the same woman, he can be so only if they marry in accordance with the requirements of Bahá'í law.

4.2 If the Bahá'í dissimulated his faith or undertook a vow contrary to Bahá'í principles, and the holding of the marriage ceremony of the other faith was not dependent upon such an act, it is not necessary to dissolve the marriage, but the Bahá'í must do whatever is necessary to officially inform the appropriate authorities that he was a Bahá'í at the time of his marriage, and to withdraw the vow. Following the taking of these steps the Bahá'í's voting rights may be restored on condition that a Bahá'í marriage ceremony be held immediately after their restoration.

4.3 If the Bahá'í neither dissimulated his faith nor undertook any vow contrary to Bahá'í principles, and his only offence was failure to have the Bahá'í ceremony on the same day as the ceremony of the other religion (or the civil ceremony), his voting rights may be restored on condition that a Bahá'í marriage ceremony be held immediately after their restoration.

5. The holding of a Bahá'í marriage ceremony, which would permit the restoration of voting rights is subject to the same requirements as any other Bahá'í marriage, and if a Bahá'í has had a civil ceremony of another religion without a Bahá'í ceremony and without obtaining consent of parents, the Assembly, before granting the Bahá'í ceremony, must be satisfied that the consent of the parents is freely given.

6. If a Bahá'í has a civil marriage or the marriage of another religion, and the Assembly is satisfied that this was because he (or she) was genuinely ignorant of Bahá'í law on the subject, the Assembly may excuse the fault. In such a case the person is recognized as married in the same way as if he had been married before accepting the Faith. It is thus neither necessary nor possible for him to have a Bahá'í ceremony."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Greece, July 15, 1980)


Page 386



1282. Mixed Marriages (i.e., Bahá'í and Non-Bahá'í)

"With reference to your question regarding mixed marriages, that is to say between Bahá'ís and non-Bahá'ís, in all such cases the believer must insist that the Bahá'í ceremony should, as far as he is concerned, be performed in its entirety, but should also give full freedom to the other contracting party to carry out the non-Bahá'í rite or ceremony be it Muslim, Christian or otherwise, provided the latter does not invalidate the Bahá'í marriage act. This is the general principle which your N.S.A. should explain to the friends."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of Iraq, April 16, 1936)

onepence
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Re: Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

Postby onepence » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:08 am

Q : Does the 95 days apply to our case?



A : although the following quote does not exactly answer the question, logical inference can be made ...





1286. Marriage by Proxy

"In reply to your letter of October 19th asking whether a young believer in your jurisdiction may be married by proxy; we do not approve of the proposed proxy marriage."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, October 26, 1967)

onepence
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm
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Re: Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

Postby onepence » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:29 am

Q : As I read through the website I understood that we do not need to exchange dowry as it is not recognize in the United State yet, but if I am aware of it and this is one of the principle in the Kitabe Aghdas what should we do?

A : As the law of the dowry is not binding on the West it therefore remains at the discretion of the individual.

Some guiding principles can be found
Some Thoughts on Baha'i Marriage

http://www.santamonicabahai.org/marriage.pdf

The Iranian believers residing in western countries . . . should not require the western Bahá’ís to be bound by the same laws as are applicable to themselves, nor should they expect more of them than the pen of the beloved Guardian prescribed for them for this period.

The Universal House of Justice, dated July 7, 1968



Bahá’u’lláh indicates that, if, at the time of the wedding, the bridegroom is unable to pay the dowry in full, it is permissible for him to issue a promissory note to the bride (Q and A 39).

pilgrimbrent
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Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:16 pm

Re: Friend needs help with some tricky marriage questions

Postby pilgrimbrent » Thu May 31, 2012 10:35 pm

I personally think that these detailed legal questions -- civil law and Baha'i law -- should be referred to the Office of Community Administration at the Baha'i National Center community@usbnc.org or 847-869-9039.


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