Guru Nanak?

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Zazaban
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Guru Nanak?

Postby Zazaban » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:56 pm

Could he have been a Prophet? If not a prophet? Just asking.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:02 pm

"Regarding your question concerning Joseph Smith and the 'Book of Mormon': as the Baha'i Teachings quite clearly outline the succession of Prophets from the days of Christ as being Muhammad, the Bab, and finally Baha'u'llah, it is obvious that Joseph Smith is not a Manifestation of God.

"The Baha'is should deal with the members of all religious sects, however, with the greatest tolerance and friendliness, and try to point out to them the significance of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah to the world in this great Day. The Guardian would advise you to teach the Mormons like everyone else, the Faith, when you find them receptive. They have many good principles, and their teachings regarding chastity, not drinking or smoking, etc., are quite similar to ours, and should form a point of common interest."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, August 18, 1941: Baha'i News, No. 416, November 1965, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1727)


There are, I think, similarly a large number of fundamental principles shared by our Faith with the Sikh Faith, such as the emphasis on the Oneness and Unknowability of God.

Of course, it is possible to consider him as having been inspired in some sense, certainly drawing on the wisdom of the revealed religions.

best wishes,
Brett

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:13 pm

i'm sorry, but what do mormons have to do what Guru Nanak?
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

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Postby brettz9 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:09 am

This line:
...the Baha'i Teachings quite clearly outline the succession of Prophets from the days of Christ as being Muhammad, the Bab, and finally Baha'u'llah, it is obvious that Joseph Smith is not a Manifestation of God.


Guru Nanak lived in the 1400's and 1500's, well after Muhammad, so the line of succession listed above rules him out as a Manifestation of God (as with the reasoning against Joseph Smith being one).

Muhammad also sealed the age of the lesser prophets, so he could not be one of these.

However, again on the theme of the inspired, this may be interesting:

BAHA'O'LLAH continually urges man to free himself from the superstitions and traditions of the past and become an investigator of reality, for it will then be seen that God has revealed his light many times in order to illumine mankind in the path of evolution, in various countries and through many different prophets, masters and sages.

(Attributed to 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 'Abdu'l-Bahá on Divine Philosophy, pp. 8-9)

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:34 pm

What i got from that seal of the prophet thing was that it only lasted untill judgement day. couldn't that apply to the coming of any Prophet?
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:52 pm

Zazaban wrote:What i got from that seal of the prophet thing was that it only lasted untill judgement day. couldn't that apply to the coming of any Prophet?


What's your question exactly?

About the Seal of the Prophets, Baha'u'llah gives a more than satisfactory treatment of the topic in the Kita-i-Iqan, if you are interested.

If you are asking whether or not another Prophet could have come after Muhammad (other than the Bab and Baha'u'llah), the answer is yes. But that did not happen, and we know this as Baha'is.

By the way, it would be more helpful if we knew where you are coming from (what religion you belong to).

Best Regards

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:55 pm

I don't really come from a religous background
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

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Postby brettz9 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:20 pm

Muhammad's title of "Seal of the Prophets" we believe has different meanings.

In one sense, all of the Prophets could possess this title.

In another sense, it apparently means that Muhammad has sealed the age of the lesser prophets (e.g., those like Daniel, Isaiah, etc.) who did not possess their own Scriptures but nevertheless spoke God's will to the people. The word in the Qur'án refers to these lesser prophets.

So, my point was that the possibility for lesser prophets since the time of Muhammad is also excluded in our belief.

best wishes,
Brett

majnun
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The next prophets in line

Postby majnun » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:19 am

.

The arrival of the Bab and Baha'u'llah are
annouced clearly in the Qur'an, but most people
deny it, a bit like they deny Revelation 11:3, the part
that announced Muhammad and Ali to preach in the desert for 1260 days (years).

the text of verse 12:67 of the Qur'an (that is chapter 12, verse 67) says:

And he said: "My sons, do not enter from one door (the word in arabic is BAB) ,
but enter from separate doors; and I cannot avail you anything against ALLAH,
for these (2) judgments are from ALLAH. In Him I put my trust, and in Him
those who put their trust should trust.


note: the word "jugements" IS in plural in the Khalifa version

The 1267th year of hegira is the exact year the BAB ended his mission
(was killed)

Now, if you count the number of word ALLAH to the end of the Quran,
they are here in this verse, the 1309 and 1310th. In the 1310th year of hegira,
Baha'u'lla ended his mission, the exact year, again.

How much more precise than this
authentic scripture from above, can we be ?

Now if these 2 jugements are from ALLAH, what else could it be,
if the two successive the 2 revelations we know, with their exact application dates ?

In an early writing (the cloud) Baha'u'llah wrote that the
jugement comes into action when the scriptures are completed.

There are many other amazing indications concerning the Bab and
Baha'u'llah, inside the Qur'an, almost every where you see the word
BAB or the word BAYAN.

This "science" does not seem to excite
many baha'is theese days, and it is quite normal,
because when a person begins to swim forward in the ocean
of the new revelations, the need to sit on such "proofs" is not very
important.

Also, the annoucement of the prophets that will come after the Bab and Baha'u'llah may be
easy to distinguish inside the Quran, but I wont tell you, because narrow minded red necks
will say I am a covenant breaker again. This is one of the problem on the baha'i wave :
it is the bla bla and gossip on your back, if you say what you think.
a bit like prince Charle said: "bloody people". But in our case, it is sometimes even
nastier than that.

All this seems clear to me.

Majnun

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:35 pm

What you said was sheer blasphemy, but I was upset so I Apoligise if I was too harsh. I would like to hear what you have to say.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

majnun
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Semi hidden messages

Postby majnun » Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:27 am

Dear Zabadan,

no problemo. If a person ever feels driven (controlled) by
his inner emotions, if he meditates on valley one and two,
this sort of pain should move away easyly.

The Bab was born on the first day of the year 1235hg.
In the reality, 1235 years have passed and this first day is
the first day of the 1236th year.

At the begining of chapter 9 of the Qur'an, where the bismillah is missing,
1235 verses have passed (do you see the parallel ?)
the bismillah has 19 letters, like the word wahid has an abjad of 19.
This indicates the birth date of the Bab messenger.

verse no 1267 from the start (9:32) says:
They want to put out ALLAH's light with their mouths, but ALLAH insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.
(This verse has 60 arabic letters)


The added digits of the abjad values gives me 213.

ALLAH's light, it is the Bab, who they killed in this 1267th year.
This 1267th verse, counted from the start, indicate that year, exactly.

Now we have here the 1545 and 1546th word ALLAh, counted from the end of the Quran.

To find the index of any number, in relation with the prime numbers,
you take that number, minus the amount of prime number before it (+1 )

Now before 1545 there are exactly 243 prime numbers, therefore 1545 minus 244 = 1301, this is the index of number 1545.

Now 1301 is also the 212th prime number.
212 is the name of the BAB, numerically expressed with the
abjad system as 2-1-2 = B-A- B.


the next verse 9:33 says:

He is the One who sent His messenger* with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

This verse has 60 arabic letters
The added digits of the abjad values gives me 212 (again!)

5+6+1+3+7+1+1+2+6+3+2+6+6+3+5+2+1+
3+5+4+1+6+4+1+5+1+3+8+1+3+1+9+5+2+
5+7+3+1+1+3+4+1+5+2+3+5+6+3+6+2+2+
5+1+3+4+3+2+2+6+5 = 212

212 = letters B-A-B. "His messenger" is name here, numerically.

The 212th prime number on the table is 1301.

Both verses may signal the year 60 (1260) when his mission started.

Outside this numbering "science", the text of these 2 verses
clearly talk about the BAB.

Baha'u'llah discusses those two verses in the Iquan.

Another fun thing happens on the verse where number 19 is mentionned
in chapter 74 of the Quran.
If you add all the digits BEFORE the word 19, the total is, if you take the
Submission site corrected text: 1267.
It you include the number 19 (taseat echar) , the total is 1301, and this again is the name of the BAB, the 212th prime number.

The abjad of 19 writen in letters is 1105, and addding its digits gives 34.
You may find amazing that 1105 is the 2nd Carmichael number, but
I dont see now what is the direct relation with our affair. But I remember that adding the digits of verse 1235 (last in chapter 8) gives 1105. I would have to check.


A last thing,
This verse 9:33 is repeated word for word at chapter 61:9.
from 9:33 to 61:9 included, there is exactly 3903 verses.
That is 1301 tree times.
It may means that after the BAB, 3 persons as important as himself
will come before the "entry by troops".
I say this simply because from 9:33 to 61:9, there is 1441 word ALLAH, and this correspond exactly to the year 2020-21 ad, the year we say will be the "entry by troops". Its just a suppositon from my braincells though.

The Submission site talks about us under the file "Satan", ah ah ah.
I used to like their aproach years ago, but that was before I learned
what happened in Shiraz in the year 1260-67. Concerning Guru Nanak or other messenger, I did not look in that sense, but I suppose we may find clear evidence inserted inside the Quran, who knows ? I hope what is mentioned here is not blasphemy, lol.

All this seems clear to me.

MJ.

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:46 am

None of that was blasphemy. that was interesting :D
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

majnun
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Postby majnun » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:58 am

just a part of an old study I did while
I was in a "proofing" phase (dalil).

MJ

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Postby palatadvor » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:58 am

Well Guru Nanak, was A human being full of spiritual knowledge...........
He was a human being of power.............

Prophet muhommad was also a human being
Jesus Christ was also a Human being
Gautam buddha was also a human being
Lord mahavira was also a human being
Bahai(I dont know wat it is) also deals with human being
Guru nanak was also human being

What is similarity???????????

These all were avtars of God.
God says if u see christ in me u faals as christian, if u see nanak in me u fall in hindues..........

The above all saints says that
----Na koi hindu, na ko musalmaan----

I means Human is one. when you born you dont even know who are u.
when u grown up ur mom - dad and world told you what you are.....

Sorry, But i waana say that ur mom - dad and world lies with you.....

They dont told u u are human being.......they told u are islam , christian, sikh etc.
People dont follow teachings of religon That

GOD IS ONE

pls dont take any wordings to ur heart

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Postby palatadvor » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:01 pm

Want to tell u that
Guru nanak revolves mecca this is not for showing his power............
He did this stunt to told qazis that god is every where not only in mecca.....

I have seen some muslims who says.........." Dont compare Prophet Muhommad with Nanak, christ, shiv etc"

Well who compares these all are one, i waana told them that You compares muhommad saab with these all ..............

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:46 pm

We're not Muslims. your posts seem to indicate that you think we're Muslims.

The Baha'i faith is not a branch of Islam, despite what some people believe.

Seeing that you don't even know who Baha'u'llah is, it looks like you just came here to try to "convert" us. I am sorry if i'm wrong.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

majnun
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Postby majnun » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:09 pm

Hello sikhsm;

You are right in what you wrote.

Inner contaminations inserted by families, educators, and medias,
are easy to erase. New religions (baha'is, meher baba and raelians)
offer easy steps to liberate the conscience from these old mental poisons.

I am please to hear from someone who knows the sikh religion
better that we do. Maybe you know some methods we know nothing
about. Please write to us again.

MJ.

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Postby palatadvor » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:07 am

ya u r rite i should not compare bahai's with muslims or hindues.or sikhs or any other................

Because we all are one ................bahai faith also told us that god is one..u better know

Well in sikhism 10 gurus

Guru Nanak Dev jee - Head guru
Guru Angad Dev Jee
Guru Amar DAas Jee
Guru Raam Daas Jee
Guru Arjun Dev Jee
Guru Har gobind Jee
Guru Har Rai Jee
Guru Har krishan Jee
Guru Teg Bahadur Jee
Guru Gobind singh jee

Present Sikhs have to bileave in Guru Granth Sahib Jee

Guru Granth Sahib Je - Contains teachings of all above

Teachings - God is one

Know tell me wat's difference between all religons as all stress on god is one.

well if you want query about sikhism i am here

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:28 am

sikhsm wrote:Know tell me wat's difference between all religons as all stress on god is one.


You can refer to my response in your other topic on this forum titled "Sikhism" as I give a fuller response there. But let me say here that the sole emphasis of religion isn't limited only to belief of the oneness of God. The Baha'i Faith for example has social teachings too, in contrast with spiritual teachings intended for the individual believer. Religion both tries to change (transform) the believer and society, for what good is it if everyone believes in one God but cannot agree on essential social principles? The lack of such religious guidance does create disunity, and religion's purpose is to create unity. Thus everyone should be unified in belief in terms of essential beliefs. This should come from religion. Otherwise, if society on its own decides how things should be run, then surely the result will be more than imperfect—disastrous—since it is not based on social principles of religion.

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Postby palatadvor » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:31 am

warriror i m saying what is difference between all religon means

why are people fighting of religons.........
Muslim - Hindues
Muslim - Sikhs

Even people are fighting because of land

Indians evacuated from labonon...................
USA saying that this is not sikhs country.........

Well i want to tell u all this is not your earth this universe is not yours.......

I am talking there about fighting, riots because of religon

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...

Postby majnun » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:40 am

...

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:58 am

Majnun,

The 500,000 years refers the end of the Babi cycle not the coming of the next manifestation.

Sihksm,

People here tell me that Guru Nanak could not have been a Prophet because Muhammed was the seal for the Adamic cycle. I do not think this is so. Abdul Baha said that Muhammad could claim to be both the first adam and the last and not that he was the seal of the Adamic cycle. Guru nanak seems to reflect many of the atributes of a Divine Manifestation, so I believe it highly likely that he was.

I live in a city where there are many, many Sihks. so many that people are lead to believe that Sihkism is the sole religion of India!
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

majnun
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Postby majnun » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:29 pm

Dear Zabadan;

Thank you for this nice information.
I guess what I wrote above is a bit complex.

I simply wished to illustrate that ounce a
concept is well understood, we dont need
to read again the written instructions all the time,
in a circle manner.

MJ

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:54 pm

majnun wrote:Dear Zabadan;

Thank you for this nice information.
I guess what I wrote above is a bit complex.

I simply wished to illustrate that ounce a
concept is well understood, we dont need
to read again the written instructions all the time,
in a circle manner.

MJ
Oh I understood. not sure what made you think I didn't.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh

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sorry

Postby majnun » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:31 am

oh, i just guessed.
I don't know if people catch
what I meant with this "circle" examples.

MJ

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Postby brettz9 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:54 pm

Zazaban wrote:The 500,000 years refers the end of the Babi cycle not the coming of the next manifestation.


Yes, this is true (It is actually called the Baha'i cycle...)

Zazaban wrote:People here tell me that Guru Nanak could not have been a Prophet because Muhammed was the seal for the Adamic cycle.


My apologies, but I see I did not cite my source earlier on the quotation relevant to this question:

...as the Baha'i Teachings quite clearly outline the succession of Prophets from the days of Christ as being Muhammad, the Bab, and finally Baha'u'llah, it is obvious that Joseph Smith is not a Manifestation of God.

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, August 18, 1941: Baha'i News, No. 416, November 1965, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1727)


The above is thus an authoritative source addressing this issue.

Zazaban wrote:I do not think this is so. Abdul Baha said that Muhammad could claim to be both the first adam and the last and not that he was the seal of the Adamic cycle.


Although it is true that there COULD have been another Prophet, we are told that:

"Regarding your questions: We cannot possibly add names of people we (or anyone else) think might be Lesser Prophets to those found in the Qur'an, the Bible and our own Scriptures. For only these can we consider authentic Books."

(On behalf of Shoghi Effendi, March 13, 1950, to an individual believer, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1695))


Zazaban wrote:Guru nanak seems to reflect many of the atributes of a Divine Manifestation, so I believe it highly likely that he was.


I think you may be interested to read the entire section 1 of this document: http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_nrm_ ... arriage#s1 . Though it talks about our relationship to "new" religions, I think it may be relevant here too, specifically in its mention that "In general, when presenting the Faith, a Bahá'í endeavours, in the first instance, to build a bridge of agreement to the individual whom he or she is trying to reach. This bridge serves as the basis for further communication and the foundation for a more detailed discussion of the Teachings."

Sikhism most certainly does show a number of fundamental parallels: The Unity of God, the Unknowability of God, the high status of women, and so on. 'Abdu'l-Baha also apparently may have praised Sikhs as to their good morals in abstaining from alcohol, smoking, etc.: http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/a ... b/129.html (toward the end and referenced in the 4th footnote). Even their use of a bracelet is similar to 'Abdu'l-Baha's reference to the function of some Baha'is wearing the(optional) Baha'i ring--to remind us to be holy. We might still view the gurus as having been inspired in some degree, perhaps more as drawing inspiration from preexisting traditions.


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