What else happened on June 12th...

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Greg Newing
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What else happened on June 12th...

Postby Greg Newing » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:25 am

The ICC has taken the first steps toward making war an official crime. This may give the friends in Iran hope:

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010 ... 00167.html

Jonah
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Re: What else happened on June 12th...

Postby Jonah » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:35 am

Thanks, Greg.

See also a number of articles Christopher Buck published in Iran Press Watch:

brettz9
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Re: What else happened on June 12th...

Postby brettz9 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:14 am

Hi,

I think the Baha'i friends in Iran and everywhere would only be pleased (sorry I haven't had time to read the article carefully yet) if the provisions against "war" also take account for justice. For example, 'Abdu'l-Baha stated that one country could never give up arms unless others did the same. Likewise, He also envisaged a system in which preemptive strikes against weapons-stockpiling governments was not only permissible, but required by international law and agreement, albeit under the direction of the federated international authority (see http://bahai-library.com/abdulbaha_secr ... ization#65 ).

To take some examples, if a man is beating his wife, or stockpiling weapons in the time of the "Wild West", it would have been reasonable in many cases and even justified that a neighbor might take it upon himself to intervene in some cases, even though he will be blamed as being a vested interest, or might commit his own transgressions, etc.

The real solution we all know is for there to be elected institutions (as also called for in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 21) who appoint police officers to intervene as a third party, and courts to make final decisions.

But before such institutions exist, it is only reasonable and maybe even incumbent on there being intervention (though again, the real solution is a higher order, in this case, at the international level, which not only has the power but the will to intervene). Moreover, in Turning Point For All Nations (at http://bahai-library.com/uhj_turning_point_nations ), the Baha'i International Community pointed out the need for seeing the U.N. in evolutionary terms and as part of a wider international order. It is not currently a world government.

I think this justification at taking the law in one's own hands in the absence of a just order is mirrored in the allowance in Baha'i law for Baha'is to carry arms when there is no justly constituted or effectual government, which is probably only a few places in the world now (Somalia, Western Sahara, Northern Yemen, if I venture some guesses) since our Writings indicate that we cannot be the ones to decide what a "just government" is--it essentially means, as I recall, a government which is in control (of course, this does not mean we obey governments when cases of very fundamental principles are violated, like if as a pilgrim's note states, a Baha'i were to be required to denounce Jews, or as in Iran, when they seek to compel recanting of one's Faith).

Also in Turning Point For All Nations, the Baha'i International Community itself points out some shortcomings of the U.N. (such as certain countries being allowed to be members who have no basic rights offered to their own people) which if remedied (and perhaps this article addresses some of them) could bring real justice and order.

Sorry as I don't have time to better organize my thoughts and respond directly, but I really wanted to respond to this topic. That being said, it doesn't mean that the Baha'i Faith wouldn't welcome making "war" a crime, as of course such order is a primary goal of our Faith, but only assuming it is on sustainable and just conditions.

best wishes,
Brett


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