Kalimat Press ?

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Jim Boran

Kalimat Press ?

Postby Jim Boran » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:41 pm

I'm hearing some rumours that Kalimat Press has been closed or banned or something like that. Can someone please clear this up? Thanks.

Baha'i Warrior
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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:00 pm

it isnt a rumor it is true, i saw it on the 'net. i heard they were sent some letters by the House warning them not to publish certain books. they have published some books that ex-Baha'is or Baha'is that lost their rights have published and some of the stuff was critical of the faith. apparently all their books were approved but a few bad ones slipped by

conclusion: before you read a "Baha'i" book make sure it isn't written by an ex-Baha'i! :wink:

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Postby Jonah » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:59 pm

I wrote to Tony Lee (editor of Kalimat) and will post the letters on this topic as soon as he sends them to me.

-Jonah

another guest

Postby another guest » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:47 pm

Jonah,

The letters from the US NSA to Anthony Lee at Kalimat and to the Baha'i Distribution Center, bookstores, and LSAs may be found on the Administrative Website, Jan. 02, 06.

Don't forget "The believers are reminded that letters from the Institutions of the Faith to the Bahá’ís should generally not be disseminated in public venues, electronic or otherwise.”

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Postby Hasan » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:04 pm

Baha'i Warrior wrote:it isnt a rumor it is true, i saw it on the 'net. i heard they were sent some letters by the House warning them not to publish certain books. they have published some books that ex-Baha'is or Baha'is that lost their rights have published and some of the stuff was critical of the faith. apparently all their books were approved but a few bad ones slipped by

conclusion: before you read a "Baha'i" book make sure it isn't written by an ex-Baha'i! :wink:


Sorry warrior, but I don't agree with you here, bahá'ís without adminstrative rights cannot express theirselves? in fact, they are bahá'ís, why close the doors to them, it seems cruel to me.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:19 am

another guest wrote:JDon't forget "The believers are reminded that letters from the Institutions of the Faith to the Bahá’ís should generally not be disseminated in public venues, electronic or otherwise.”


Can you please provide a source for this? I searched it using google and it came up with nuttin. Thanks.

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:45 pm

It's okay, we don't have to agree on everything :) . Yeah if some guy lost his administrative rights, chances are he's bitter about the Faith and if he writes something most likely it will be critical, as is the case with some Kalimat books. I'm not saying they are bad people, what I am saying is that I don't think what they are going to write is going to be very constructive, as is usually the case.

PS--If the UHJ says we shouldn't be discussing this, we'd better not. Anyone got a source?


Hasan wrote:
Baha'i Warrior wrote:it isnt a rumor it is true, i saw it on the 'net. i heard they were sent some letters by the House warning them not to publish certain books. they have published some books that ex-Baha'is or Baha'is that lost their rights have published and some of the stuff was critical of the faith. apparently all their books were approved but a few bad ones slipped by

conclusion: before you read a "Baha'i" book make sure it isn't written by an ex-Baha'i! :wink:


Sorry warrior, but I don't agree with you here, bahá'ís without adminstrative rights cannot express theirselves? in fact, they are bahá'ís, why close the doors to them, it seems cruel to me.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:35 pm

Baha'i Warrior wrote:Yeah if some guy lost his administrative rights, chances are he's bitter about the Faith and if he writes something most likely it will be critical, as is the case with some Kalimat books.


Which Kalimat Press book or books were written by people who 'lost their administrative rights'? And aren't Baha'is free to read whatever they want? Even CB books?

"The House of Justice has instructed us to say that, as you are no doubt aware, it is not prohibited for Baha'is to read the writings of Covenant-breakers" Universal House of Justice (Secretariat) 1978, 12 Oct.

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:55 pm

sure baha'is can read whatever they want. so go ahead my friend, ignore all the exhortations.

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Postby Hasan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:19 pm

Baha'i Warrior wrote: Yeah if some guy lost his administrative rights, chances are he's bitter about the Faith and if he writes something most likely it will be critical, as is the case with some Kalimat books. I'm not saying they are bad people, what I am saying is that I don't think what they are going to write is going to be very constructive, as is usually the case


Your assumption leads to fundamentalism. Every bahá’í have the right to freely express and to make a book, and there should be no any restriction for its publication. The question is not the person, but the content of the book, that is why it needs to pass review. Bahá’ís or bahá’ís without administrative rights (even former bahá’ís) could do excellent works. Of course, if I could, I’d not allow writings of covenant breakers to be published by any publishing trust.

By the way, Alison Marshall is one of the contributors of this site, so.... you seem fundamentalist thinking that way :o
http://bahai-library.com/?file=personal_pages

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:37 pm

Hasan wrote:By the way, Alison Marshall is one of the contributors of this site, so.... you seem fundamentalist thinking that way :o
http://bahai-library.com/?file=personal_pages


what is up with this? lol. so what did miss marshall say that got her kicked out?

no im not fundamentalist, im just a man trying to be a Baha'i

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:54 pm

Baha'i Warrior wrote:Yeah if some guy lost his administrative rights, chances are he's bitter about the Faith and if he writes something most likely it will be critical, as is the case with some Kalimat books.



which Kalimat Press book or books were written by people who 'lost their administrative rights'?

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Kalimat Press: All works passed review!

Postby jenniferatemple » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:59 pm

Why are we told not to purchase from them. Why not just warn us about the items that should not have passed review? It seems to me to be very strong medicine to put them out of business when through no fault of theirs, works are not acceptable After being OKed for publication. I do not undestand what has happened in this case!

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby Jonah » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:25 pm

Hi Jennifer, and others reading this. Your post deserves a good and thorough response, as it touches on a few different issues, but I can't respond today. I (or others, maybe, and possibly Tony from Kalimat) can help clarify/expand on it this weekend.

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby armchairscholar » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:28 pm

I don't know if you noticed the date, but this was eight years ago, so it seems like this is hardly an issue worth worrying about.

Kalimat Press is still in business. At least, their website is still up.

http://www.kalimat.com/

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby jenniferatemple » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:23 am

I was not here 8 years ago and I did not see anywhere that the order was rescinded. Nor have I been enlightened as to the issues involved that made the order necessary. Why did they not simply give notice on the disapproved volumes.(I still have no idea what the objectionable material was or is) It is still an issue new to me 8 years later. How does Kalimat stand today? Are we now allowed to purchase from them or are they still in the dog house? :question:

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby armchairscholar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:32 am

These posts date from 2006. The date is in the left hand corner under the username.

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:54 pm

A cursory look over the materials shows that the vast majority of the authors are Baha'is and many works will be available some place or other, so I cannot imagine anything wrong with purchasing from them, particularly since this issue took place nearly a decade ago.

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby jenniferatemple » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:48 pm

emma: That does not tell me where the institution stands on the issue today. Have the Institutions now cleared Kalimat for clear conscience purchases? I think, not.

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby Jonah » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:52 pm

I'm working with the editors at Kalimat to assemble the relevant letters and discussion, dating from 2006-2008. I should be able to post them all this weekend. Most are online elsewhere, e.g .bahaiadmin.blogspot.ca , http://bahairants.com , and http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com , but it's time for them all to be sorted and put in one place.

According to the Universal House of Justice you are allowed to purchase and read their books. From http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/u ... june-2006/ :

Individuals and institutions have not been prevented from purchasing Kalimát’s books or from keeping them in their libraries. Rather, the National Assembly has simply decided that Bahá’í agencies will not sell them.

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby armchairscholar » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:41 pm

And ... some people have a lot of free time on their hands.

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby Jonah » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:13 pm

These documents are now online, edited and formatted, with permission of all recipients: http://bahai-library.com/kalimat_distri ... i_agencies

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby jenniferatemple » Sat May 09, 2015 7:44 pm

From UHJ:

"Dear Baha'i Friend,

Your letter dated 10 December 2014 seeking clarification regarding Kalimat Press was received by the Universal House of Justice and forwarded to our department for response. As a result of concerns that Kalimat Press was pursuing a particular editorial agenda, offering certain titles that were not in keeping with the best interests of the Faith, in 2005 the National Spiritual Assemblies of the United States and Canada asked Local Spiritual Assemblies to no longer distribute its publications. Individuals are free, of course, to decide to purchase books from any publisher.

With loving Baha'i greetings,
SIG,
For Department of the Secretariat"

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby Sen McGlinn » Sun May 10, 2015 1:46 pm

I have just begun to read the correspondence that Jonah announced a couple of posts above. Link: http://bahai-library.com/kalimat_distri ... i_agencies

I got as far as the UHJ writing "(In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Bahá'u'lláh has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.)"

At the time the book was published, I did a rather extensive book review and critique. I can't recall any such thing in the book. I've just pulled the book off the shelf, and read the conclusions again. There's nothing there about the Faith having failed, or being captured by fundamentalists.

I also cannot agree with the UHJ calling the book "the mainspring of an attack on their Faith." In fact, it looks as if they had not read the book, or had read something else (by Cole?) and thought it was this book.

My review of Modernity and the Millenium is online at H-Bahai.
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=2155

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby brettz9 » Mon May 11, 2015 4:10 am

The passages they reference are in the first paragraph at https://books.google.com/books?id=I_3Ya ... le&f=false

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby Jonah » Mon May 11, 2015 9:15 am

Thank you! I got a partial digital copy of the book from the old Google Books, which has the full intro and pages 18-20 of the first chapter. I've posted it to http://bahai-library.com/cole_modernity_millennium

If the objectionable content is in the Intro or in these first 4 pages of Chapter One, I'm not seeing it, could you point it out?

If not, and if you (or anyone else reading this) has a copy of the book, perhaps you/they could type or scan the relevant content ...? If it's not there, perhaps this is a scan of a later edition and the objectionable content was removed (?).

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Re: Kalimat Press ?

Postby brettz9 » Mon May 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Ah, sorry, I see the link is only showing for me but in a private tab without cookies it doesn't show. The page number is 196 (in the Conclusion as per the House itself) and here is one particular paragraph containing the phrases cited by the House and which seems to fit:

The Baha'is' attempt to ground their critiques of both absolutism and of modernity in a religious revelation constitutes the religion as a field of contention between more liberal and more fundamentalist interpretations, though in the twentieth century the fundamentalist strands have become increasingly powerful. Christian and Muslim fundamentalists have attempted similar sorts of dual critiques of tradition and modernity. Fundamentalism in any contemporary religion constitutes an attempt "to secure political hegemony within the global political structure, while at the same time securing at the local level a degree of control over the life-world by attempting to exclude the pluralism of contemporary patterns of consumption."6 The tensions in the world religions between the values of religious community and of secular modernity have remained unresolved and have been fought over throughout the past two centuries. They are at the end of the twentieth century again being powerfully broached. This phenomenon is especially salient on the political right, as with the Christian Coalition in the United States, the Islamic Revolution and the Khomenist state in Iran, or the movement in India for Hindutva, or Hindu polity. To these problems of international and local control and of pluralism some contemporary leaders of the Baha'i faith have given answers increasingly similar to those of fundamentalists, stressing scriptural literalism, patriarchy, theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values.7 While the values of the nineteenth century Baha'i movement, which were far more tolerant, continue to exist as a minority view, by the late 1990s a different set of emphases prevailed. The radical reorientation of the religion in the course of the twentieth century further underlines the fallacy of essentialism in speaking about Middle Eastern religious movements, which have often demonstrated startling changes over time.


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