Posted by Stuart Gilman (188.8.131.52) on December 21, 2002 at 06:52:51:
In Reply to: Re: Prophets and Visionaries posted by simon on December 20, 2002 at 14:15:24:
Dear simon and others,
Let me constrain this post to your single question:
Simon - "Are you saying, then, that as Baha‚is we are possibly mistaken to use the 1844 prophesy to add weight to our claims for the Bahai revelation... "
I am not ONLY saying that, I am saying that any pre-cursor prophesies are unnecessary and potentially self-damaging. Baha'u'llah needs no "introduction" by the Bab. When he writes (Kitab-I-Aqdas - paraphrase) "I am the one whose coming has been foretold."
.. we assume and have spread the possible falsehood that He is referring to the Bab's foretelling. Even if he states specifically, "I am the one whose coming has been foretold by the Bab", I would be astounded, for anyone who has arrived as a Manifestation, would not need credentials, or accreditation by previous prophets or visionaries. None of the others of our nine Manifestations ever said, "I am the One whose coming has been planned, arranged, foretold, by Mr. or Mrs. John Doe."
No self-realized Manifestation could possibly think in those terms. Therefore, even the translation, "I am the One whose coming has been foretold" is suspect.
"I am the Pen of God" suffices. "I am the Manifestation of the Words of God". "I am He who has been sent forth by the Most Supreme Being."
"I am the One who has been chosen by God to speak unto you."
Or, simplest of all, "God says ... "
Any need to justify that He is who He is, is suspect.
If I am God's messenger, the least of my problems or concerns is to find any authority for proving to you that I am. Yes, historically, performing miracles has been the Judeo-Christian manner of affirmation. Roman Catholic sainthood is attained by proof of miracles. As is Greek Orthodox sainthood. Moses and Jesus are ordained almost exclusively by their miracles.
Baha'u'llah goes out of his way to downplay miracles, realizing their irrelevance and possible rejection by "moderns", people of the 20th century and beyond. David Copperfield performs more miracles than all the prophets combined, as do hundreds of other illusionists. As well, the world's great illusionists often duplicate the precise miracles of Moses, Jesus and others. The Great Randi, a skeptic, duplicates all the miracles and exposes them as hoaxes.
This is not proof. One can walk on water as an illusion, and another can really walk on water. Problem is, every single illusionist has been exposed as has every single hoax - particularly religious hoaxes. I refer you to the text, "Parapsychology: A History of Scientific Investigation". In it one reads that not a single instance of a spontaneous religious miracle or performance by an individual of a replicated religious miracle has ever been proven. Not one and not ever. Imagine, not one and not ever.
this topic is closed - post at bahai-library.com/forum