Posted by anon (188.8.131.52) on November 21, 2002 at 10:49:23:
In Reply to: Humorous Challenge Answered posted by Stuart on November 20, 2002 at 18:43:52:
Stuart, I do not appreciate being told I am experiencing a crisis in Faith - it is quite a leap to assume that my independent investigation of truth should be taken as a wavering and doubting faith. Honestly, if you feel I should not concern myself with matters of academic pursuit, or if you believe none of these are important since we should simply subside on faith alone, then I see no reason why you should even be posting on this message board. If I simply relied on Faith with no investigation, evidence, or reason, I would believe such faulty and rediculous propositions such as the existence of "the story of Aham Qua'dir". This is why one must investigate for themselves to find the truth and why this is a tenant of the Faith.
It is also interesting to note that you contradict yourself in the posting. Saying I should simply just believe what I'm told, whereas you seem to have a problem with others believing what they are told. This is why reference to the text, and in some cases the text in the original language is quite necessary.
For example, we have the recitation of Alláh'u'Abhá 95 times daily. That gentlemen should not have used "well that's what I was taught" as proof of the ordinance. Rather, the original Holy Text should have been quotes:
It hath been ordained that every believer in God,
the Lord of Judgement, shall, each day, having washed
his hands and then his face, seat himself and, turning
unto God, repeat „Allah-u-Abhaš ninety-five times.
Such was the decree of the Maker of the Heavens when,
with majesty and power, He established Himself upon
the thrones of His Names. Perform ye, likewise,
ablutions for the Obligatory Prayer; this is the
command of God, the Incomparable, the Unrestrained.
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 25)
And if for some reason, that is not sufficient as proof, the original text could be quoted (the first verse only is given here for the sake of brevity):
قد كتب لمن دان باللهٰ الدّيّان ان يغسل في كلّ يوم يديه ثمّ وجهه ويقعد مقبلاً الى اللهٰ ويذكر خمساً وتسعين مرّة اللهٰ ابهىٰ كذٰلك حكم فاطر السّمآء اذ استوىٰ علىٰ اعراش الاسمآء بالعظمة والاقتدار
As far as I understand, their is a rigorous criteria for authenticating the Holy Text at the World Centre. Even though you may read a text and it is wonderful, is classifying it as Holy Text wrong? I believe yes. You may believe it is something that Baha'u'llah may have said, but if he didn't, then essentially it is a lie to make such an attribution.
I also feel that a generalization that "very few North Americans, New Baha'is" recite the Long Obligatory prayer correctly is faulty. I feel making such a brazen statement would be akin to saying that the majority of North American Baha'is are illiterate since the instructions for the prayer are given in the Text itself. Once again, if you have conducted studies and have statistics on this phenomenom, you would need to share these to lend credibility to your statement.
As for the topic at hand, I have located an original for a similar sounding passage. If you could provide any comments on this original text, it would be greatly appreciated:
قل الله يكفي كل شييء عن كل شييء ولا يكفي عن الله ربك من شيء لافي السموات ولا في الارض ولا ما بينهما انه كان علاما كافيا قديرا
Any comments from anyone?
this topic is closed - post at bahai-library.com/forum