Baha'i Library Forum

choogue

What you bring up about the "Sermon of the Gulf" translation is a red herring. Take this example: which translation would you prefer? An accurate one done by an atheist, or an inaccurate one by a Shi'a? I'd go with the one by the atheist, as I would not like to be misled by the Shi'a. The...

choogue

By the way, my responses will be delayed over the next couple of weeks, so please bear with me. Ill be heading to a place where the internet is limited, but dont worry, i will eventually respond.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Just a follow-up to my last post. I have presented to you many more hadith that you claim I offered. For example, this clear hadith that I cited from Imam Ali's "Sermon of the Gulf" (http://bahai-library.com/file.php5?file=imamali_khutbih_tutunjiyyih&language=) very, very, very, very,...

choogue

Irish, the name of the book from which Baha'u'lllah quotes is the "3awaalim". "Avalim/Awalim" is just a transliteration. The letters used in spelling it are 3ayn, waw, alif, laam, miim. The "3awaalim" referred to Baha'u'llah is probably the "Awalimu al-Ulum Wa Al-M...

choogue

I don't know why I'm the only one who is interpreting hadith to "suit" myself as you say. Don't you think there's a small possibility that you are also doing the same? What did i say? If you re-read my previous post, i said: "Again, an assumption. And once again, i can make my own as...

choogue

Richard, You have made some interesting claims, one where you stated that Islam has been corrupted. Could you please expand on this? Also, you mention that the Quran has been misinterpreted. Just to clarify, are you saying that the Prophet Muhammad(a.s) and the Ahlulbayt(a.s) were unsure of the Qura...

choogue

First, this hadith, I submit, is prophesying the Baha'is when it talks about those who "do not spread calumnies nor divulge secrets, nor slander." The Baha'is are, among many things, renowned for their honesty, and slander is forbidden in the Kitab-i-Aqdas. BW, you really need to stop mak...

choogue

Just to let you know about the above hadith. They are from Abul Husain Muslim bin al-Hajjaj al-Nisapuri, and these hadith are very well-respected Sunni hadith, but Shi'as also believe in them. :eek: The Shia also believe in them? Is this based on assumptions or heresay? As a Muslim Shia, i can conf...

choogue

It is going to be difficult to find no doubt, Abbas. Anyway, you have to find the Avalim yourself. You can't say or imply that Baha'u'llah was making it up when you can't even locate the Avalim. And heresay bears no weight—you should know that. I could locate it myself, but I do not have the time t...

choogue

You have to do some research yourself. Go to the library. Sorry, you have to understand that I don't have time to look it up for you. If you think without even researching (asking your buddies is not researching) that Baha'u'llah is making up this hadith, then I am sorry you think that. If this is ...

choogue

Just to remind everyone what this post is about, im including the questions raised that i would like answered from an ex-practicing Muslim. 1. As a Muslim (shia), they would of believed in the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad(a.s) regarding the Mahdi. What made them believe the Bab was the Mahdi? 2...

choogue

Abbas, please re-read our old discussions. Brett pointed out something important to me, that is, I was repeating myself many times when what I said (in response to what was inquired about) was already posted; you just have to go back and find it. I don't want to waste either of our times, or anyone...

choogue

The hadith I've read state that, on the contrary, the Mahdi will abolish the old religion, abrogate old laws, and create His own independent Revelation. :eek: Ive have never seen or heard of any Hadith like this. I remember you have mentioned "Avalim" or something like that but it appears...

choogue

I think many people, be they Muslim, Christian, or whatever their religion, become Baha'is for different reasons. Some choose to become Baha'is because when they read the Words of Baha'u'llah, they hear the same Voice of God as in the Qur'an or the Bible. And sometimes it's because of proofs, and o...

choogue

Well im hoping to have direct answers from practicing Muslims turned Bahai, but what i want to know is: 1. As a Muslim (shia), they would of believed in the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad(a.s) regarding the Mahdi. What made them believe the Bab was the Mahdi? 2. Since they would have initially be...

choogue

Hi All,

Is there anyone on this forum that was initially a practicing Muslim that converted to Bahai?

I would just like to ask a few questions about Imam Mahdi. Thanks.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Cool thanks Brett

choogue

Oh ok cool.

Ill get my gf to ask the LSA if they would provide a list.

Thanks
Abbas

choogue

Hey, Its not that i want it, im just curious whether it is for public eyes. Also, the reason it came to mind is that there is an email thats going around in Sydney from a Bahai who claims that she is no longer a believer but remains on the roll and she is pleading for everyone to search the truth. S...

choogue

All,

Can anyone get access to the membership roll for the Bahais?

Is their some sort of database where the list of members are kept? If so, is it located with the LSA or UHJ?

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Guys, You are misunderstanding what i am saying again. I am not saying the Quran is clear. I am saying that the someone can clearly differentiate between the symbolic and literal verses. This doesnt mean that the interpretations are clear, but just the differentiation between the two. Yes God test h...

choogue

Technically, it isn't obvious that the distinction between symbolism and literalism in the Koran is clear if I haven't shown otherwise. Because your following the belief that indicates that it isnt obvious. If someone just reads the Quran, using their commonsense, symbolism vs literal verses will b...

choogue

Thats fine BW. As long as it was by accident, it doesnt matter. I was just freaking out since i was so sure that i hit submit.

Abbas

choogue

Probably depends where you live.

Theres always going to be people from any religion or background that have converted to another religion. It doesnt matter whether they are Muslims, Christians, Bahais.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

I just can believe someone that can believe in something so much then turn! Muslims sure know how to influence them!!

Are you saying the websites influenced them or their Muslim friends/boyfriends/husbands?

Are you still friends with them or you dont talk to them anymore?

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Quote: Again, your assertion that, "To me, the difference between symbolism and literal verses are showed clearly in Quran," is obviously wrong. It obviously isnt since you havent proved anything to indicate that it is a mistake. Quote: If that were the case, then there would be no need for scholars...

choogue

Welcome Celeste, Ive seen these websites and im shocked that a bahai has not made a website arguing the point!!! I would love to but i dont know much about my faith..... Maybe you should research your faith and be the one to answer these people? No matter what religion you are, no-one should be a fo...

choogue

Jonah or Brett, Why was my reply deleted? I replied to your post (Brett) and once i submitted the reply i re-read it and then replied to BW's post. The reply was just before my last post where i responded to BW. Now its not there and i know for a fact i submitted it since i re-read it. Was it offens...

choogue

Cool, Thanks BW

choogue

BW, Of a certainty, only Baha'u'llah could perform such a miracle (uncover the truths contained within the Koran that had not been revealed by those before Him). So the Prophet Muhammad(a.s) did not reveal the truths contained within the Quran? is why a Prophet, Manifestation, etc., has to elucidate...

choogue

BW, But what do you say then to the fact that since the inauguration of God's correspondence with man via His Messengers, men have always been confused as to what their holy Texts say, and thus were divided? If you Shia's and Sunnis (and all other offshoots of Islam) saw eye to eye on every issue (w...

choogue

Let me put it this way. Does the Bible talk about a physical heaven and hell? Now ask yourself, can some of what the Bible says be taken symbolically? (I assume your answer here is also yes since you said so of the Koran.) Yes ofcourse some of what the Bible says should be taken symbolically. The s...

choogue

All,

Quick question. Do the Sun and Moon in the Quran symbolise the bab and bahaullah?

If so, which ones which?

Regards
Abbas

choogue

The holiness of Scriptures such as the Qur'an does not mean we must take everything literally. On the contrary, holiness implies a transcendence beyond the mundane. Of course, God may reveal laws dealing with the mundane in order to elevate these daily actions. And by taking some things as symbolic...

choogue

Asal,

God ofcourse is more important than the UHJ and im sure all the Bahais know this.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Asal, SYMBOLIC is surely not a good enough answer...thats why i will continue my research... If its not a good enough answer, then you are going against the teachings of your Prophet, therefore wouldnt the UHJ revoke your membership card? Or you are in hiding? Do you actually involve yourself with t...

choogue

Asal, Debating is surely intresting...but i dont understand why one must give up if they truely believe what they follow is the ONE...why just give up????....that to me is a point of WEAKNESS The reason people give it up is to avoid a debate getting into a heated argument. We are all brothers/sister...

choogue

Thanks Asal. You dont have to answer this, but are you really Bahai? The only reason i ask is because i feel you are negative in the Bahai teachings and im just wondering whether you were born as a Bahai and are only a follower rather than a believer or you were Muslim and converted to Bahai and now...

choogue

What would be the highest "scholar" for the Bahai's? Is it members of the UHJ? If so, it would be good to organise a debate between a UHJ member and a Sheikh. I love watching debates because you learn a lot and its a very good way to spread the faith aswell. Dont know if you heard of a guy named Ahm...

choogue

Nilofer, my mother asked some mullah at my place and wat they said is that bahais are misguided. according to wat he said, after prophet muhammed and before the day of the judgement there will be no more prophets or messengers who will be sent down to earth. however, there will be the return of jesu...

choogue

Asal, Why is it that you think your debate is going no where, by reading the past posts between you and th other guys...its quite intresting to see hw you are actually debating with one another...and now all of a sudden you see no point into it....remember no one will force their beliefs to others.....

choogue

BW, I can see this is going no where, and I think Richard saw this long before. I think we learnt a lot from each other though. Although we will agree that people will interpret things differently to others and people will see things that are not there and not see things that are there, i wouldnt sa...

choogue

Yes. The Masjid could be held in a basement. But that's not the point. The point is that when the word is used, it is used in the context of a Muslim place of worship. No its not a "Muslim" place of worship but rather "A" place of worship. If Allah is explaining where other people before Muslims pr...

choogue

Yes from what i know of the Jinn, there are good and bad just as there are good and bad humans. If the djinn were produced from a "smokeless fire" and fire in the physical world produces smoke, could this mean that the "smokeless fire" is not physical and the djinn are not physical beings? I dont th...

choogue

Masjid=place of worship. Though this word just means place of worship, it was adopted by Muslims to mean their place of worship. Yes, it was adopted by Muslims to mean their place of worship, a place of prayer. Doesnt necessarily mean a Mosque. If i say i want to go to the Jamai (cant spell it corr...

choogue

Thanks Argos. Im not so sure i understand this. abbas you produced a quote which seemed to categorize djinn and mankind separately. Both are portrayed acting against Allah in that verse. Djinn(may metaphorically embody ex-believers/covenant breakers) in this sense. If the Jinn in 11:19 who would be ...

choogue

"O children of Adam! wear your goodly apparel when ye repair to any mosque, and eat ye and drink; but exceed not, for He loveth not those who exceed." Who are mosques intended for? Muslims. So if Muhammad is talking to Muslims in a "O children of Adam" verse, telling them (Muslims) to worship, then...

choogue

Yes it does. As I have shown you in 7:34–35; you haven't provided a counterargument. Whether or not you want to become a Baha'i is up to you. I, as other Baha'is, would indeed be happy to receive you as a member of our faith. However, I am not trying to convince you of the meaning of the verses to ...

choogue

cool thanks mate. Ill have a read.

Abbas

choogue

Well yeh. Im basically saying that our own interpretations need to be investigated using the correct teachings. We are fallible therefore must refer to the infallible, otherwise we interpret things the way we want. And yes, we continue practicing our beliefs. That should not stop unless you have pro...

choogue

Hi All,

Does anyone know if Bahaullah and the Bab foretold of any false prophets?

If so, what would make someone believe in them or prove them as false?

If you can direct me to a piece of writing from both, that would be great otherwise an explantion would be fine. Thanks.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

We cant avoid interpreting things, which is why when we interpret it we should refer to the teachings of the Prophet as they are the infallible that were sent by God who has given them the knowledge to understand. SURELY WE ALL RECOGNIZE THE SUPERB TRUTH, BEAUTY, AND GOODNESS IN THE BAHA'I FAITH TEA...

choogue

Thanks Hasan. My personal opinion is that jinn are some kind of people who live the life intensely and is prone to evil. I agree with what you say in some sense, but my personal opinion is that there are good Jinn and also bad Jinn, especially after reading the following verse. [Pickthal 11:119] Sav...

choogue

abbas tell me what is the difference between a sunni n a shia? m a sunni .. how am i difft to u?? Hi Nilofer, I dont know much about the Shia and Sunni split because at the end we are all Muslim so most of us are taught to focus on Islam as a whole. But the major difference is the argument of the S...

choogue

Mahdi? But Mahdi is a belief for both Sunni and Shia. Thanks mate. :lol: Yeh i heard about it!! The guy is an idiot. :lol: Ive never really liked him, but listening to his speech, the media did manipulate the story and only used words that make what he said look bad. If they played his whole speech,...

choogue

the qu'ran says to behead all non muslims, and seige them wherever you see them. :shock: Not actually true Kyle. Only the uneducated people spread those lies. ;) If that were true, Prophet Muhammed (a.s) would of behead all the innocent non-muslims that lived in Mecca during his time, but instead t...

choogue

Cool thanks.

No im not Sunni, im Shia. Just out of interest, why would you assume that im Sunni?

I live in Australia and im 18 (As of 2 weeks ago actually so i still expect a Happy Bday!

)

Regards
Abbas

choogue

The Baha'i law could eventually change as far as not accepting converts in the Holy Land, but it has been upheld by 'Abdu'l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice thus far. Thanks Brettz9. Just a quick question though. It was Bahuallah that implemented this law of converting peopl...

choogue

Ok cool. Just wanted to confirm that manifestation didnt actually mean he was a material form of God as others may have interpreted it.

Thanks
Abbas

choogue

So would it be correct to say that God communicated directly to Bahaullah who revealed His revelations?

choogue

Oh ok so its just for the moment but eventually the Bahais will be able to convert Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc in Israel?

You obviously dont know when the right time is though, but im assuming the UHJ will specify the time?

Thanks ErikL.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

17.88 . Say : Verily , though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran , they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another . Oh ok so the Bahai belief is that the above verse refers to mankind as not the "evil" ones and the Jinn as the "ev...

choogue

Yeh i get that but for example, the Angel sent down revelations to Prophet Muhammed(a.s) over a period of 23 years, so is this the same with bahuallah or did he write it himself? (what i mean by "himself" is that no Angel passed on revelations to him from God) Or am i misunderstanding the term manif...

choogue

Thanks Jonah. But i think Jinn are different from Satan. From my understanding, there are good Jinn and bad Jinn. They live among us but we can not see them and some follow the right path and some do not and deny Allah. So, im wondering if there are any text from the bab or Bahuallah that mention an...

choogue

Thats true.

Only God knows the reasons why, but sometimes people have some logical explanations which are interesting to hear.

choogue

Yeh there are many anti-Bahai, anti-Muslim, anti-Christian sites.

Its kind of annoying when you research in google and these hate sites come up!

choogue

that's sort of wierd.. i've never heard of that. we should be able to convert wherever!

Yeh thats what i would of thought, especially if its a universal religion.

Im sure there is a misunderstanding though and someone can explain.

Regards
Abbas

choogue

Hi All, There is a Surah in the Quran about the Jinn and they are also mentioned in other chapters in the Quran where Allah has directed the Jinn and Mankind. An example: 17.88 . Say : Verily , though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran , they could not produce the...

choogue

Hi All,

The kitab-i-aqdas is believed to be revelations by Allah to Bahaullah right?

Is this the same with the the Iqan?

Regards
Abbas

choogue

It doesn't matter what ethnicity\religion you belong to, as long as you live in the Holy Land you can't be converted to become a Bahai. Bahaullah forbed Bahais to convert people here So this is a Bahai teaching not a Jewish teaching? Does anyone know why Bahaullah forbad Bahais to convert people in...

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