It is not his to boast who loveth his country , but

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Baha'i Warrior
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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:48 am


I don't really get your question. If it's about disciple, Baha'is do believe in discipline. When you discipline (i.e. different from vengeance) someone, you do it because you love him. You do it because you know that if you do not correct his maladaptive behavior, he will go on acting in dysfunctional ways that are detrimental not only to his own soul, but also to other souls who he may cross paths with. Of course, I am speaking generally and am not exactly in a position to comment in regards to the user that you mention.

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Re: It is not his to boast who loveth his country , but

Postby Fadl » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:05 pm

richard wrote:Hello All,

"It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his
who loveth the world."

Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, pp. 87-88:

When i read this i was reminded of our need to evolve a world government to help and coordinate all nations. And beyond that i think it is clearl that we should also evolve and progress in our respect for the Universal Government (the love of God) and Sovereignty of our One and Only God.

Is this a fair extension and interpretation of the above teaching? richard

Dear Richard,‎

While I don't think that your extension is an unreasonable one, (and in fact one that I am ‎very inclined to agree with!) yet to me the meaning is much simpler and less political.‎

All of these different nations and political systems are the handiwork of man, and have no ‎reality outside the minds of men. That we are really only one human race on one planet ‎isolated in an immense sea of emptiness, is a physical reality.‎

A man with patriotic love, but without love for the world and love for humanity has ‎nothing to boast, because he lives in a state that is wholly ignorant of reality at the most ‎basic and fundamental level. This state of ignorance is the source of all human suffering, ‎and the source of all superstition and hate.‎

But the one who loves the world is an awakened and enlightened individual who looks at ‎the world with opened eyes. Those who love the world are the source of illumination and ‎progress and the dispellers of superstition and hate. They are the new race of men who ‎bring the promise of a peaceful and unified world.‎

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It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but

Postby curt » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:45 pm

Hi Richard and Loren,

For what it is worth, I'll add my two cents worth. I like to point out to people that what is lacking in our consciousness is a sense of one world. Being a resident of a state in no way conflicts with being a citizen of this country, each has its claim and each elicits its loyalty. What is lacking, I point out, is a corresponding sense of being a resident of the planet and a citizen of humanity as a whole. What is lacking are the global institutions that will raise our level of consciousness that one step higher and that will give us the rights and duties so that we can boast that we love our kind in whatever form that will take. Plumbers, electricians, farmers, etc all nod agreement. It's a problem of finite space, one of them commented. There is nothing abstract or pious about it, it is a simple matter of survival at this point in our collective social evolution.

In conclusion, the greatest gift this country can give to humanity is its sense and success with its federated system of states, albeit applied globally. Our statesmen will figure that out eventually, the sooner the better, I say. Meanwhile, I do what I can to counter people's frustration with the current world problems by pointing out that we are all members of one race and sooner or later we will have the institutions appropriate to deal with these problems. Not everyone agrees, but they listen!

For what it was worth ,


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Postby brettz9 » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am

Hello all,

Curt, I wanted to suggest this quotation might also offer us some assistance in what you are describing:

“It seems what we need now is a more profound and co-ordinated Bahá’í scholarship in order to attract such men as you are contacting. The world has–at least the thinking world–caught up by now with all the great and universal principles enunciated by Bahá’u’lláh over 70 years ago, and so of course it does not sound “new” to them. But we know that the deeper teachings, the capacity of His projected world order to re-create society, are new and dynamic. It is these we must learn to present intelligently and enticingly to such men!”

(On behalf of Shoghi Effendi, Pearls of Wisdom, 111)

Essentially, as I see it, we have two approaches open before us when seeking to offer hope and Bahá'u'lláh's insights to the world. One is the indirect approach, such as you mention (as 'Abdu'l-Bahá mentioned to a U.S. official in how he could best serve his country), whereby we promote the application of the principle of federalism to the world level. We may also diffuse the concept (as the statement Prosperity of Humankind advises) that democracy need not include the apparatus of partisanship, that, as you suggest, we must identify ourselves as world citizens with concern for our fellow world citizens, and so on.

And on the other hand, we already in a sense do have the institutions which are most appropriate to deal with these problems--at least embryonicaly and progressively into the farther future. Our Administration, as the quotation above and our other Writings indicate, whether it is through the grass-roots democracy inherent in our 19-Day Feast, the elimination of the undue influence of the masses in our indirect, nonpartisan regional, national and international elections (and their conventions), the benefits of an oligarchical technocracy as represented by the Assemblies, by the majesty (but not autocracy) of kingship present in the institution of the Guardianship (and even perhaps to a lesser degree through the branch of the learned, if the pilgrim's notes on this subject are valid), holds a remedy for the systemic problems of modern civilization--both as a model for study by which its benefits could diffuse greater society, or as the working tool that it is for us in the period before its eventual voluntary acceptance by the nations of the world.

One statement from the Promise of World Peace statement that I especially like to point out among those who you say might not agree, is that while it is a prerequisite for peace to recognize the evils in humanity and its development, the belief that peace is not possible is the greatest barrier to its realization. (There is a converse argument, as is made in Turning Point For All Nations, that it is only possible if the Spirit is there to confirm its realization in this age, but this argument is most likely not going to fall on all ears, unfortunately...) Anyhow, just as many great globalizing developments have taken place (as well as national unifications), there is certainly no rational reason to doubt the eventual inevitability of more mature and strengthened global institutions that can administer basic justice in the world.

best wishes,

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