Integrated, Coordinated, and Holistic Approach to Truth, Bea

All research or scholarship questions
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okay Richard, here it is.

Postby majnun » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:05 pm

This I message is here because
my friend Richard asked me to put it on
the forum. However, I did not include his answer
and the precisions he gave me about his Ford Focus.

What are you talking about Richard ?
Wayne Dyer ? Such old stuff.
There is one thing you dont know, because
you do not read our scriptures.
Most of the things wich come from outside,
like Urantia book, Scientology, Wayne Dyer and
so many nice material, for baha'is, it all go into
file no 13 (junk), because our writings are so far
in advance of what humans retranscribe, that we
dont need to fill our head with external stuff.
I know that you are a steady and well wishing person,
but I you continue these diversion tactics, no one but me
will answer you. Baha'is are smart, they don't drive Fords.


And if I may add, if you do read parts of our scriptures,
how come you never talk about it ? Most of the time you
retranscribed things that you gleaned everywhere instead
of writing what you think.

We cannot start either "majnunism" or
"richardism" in here with things we read outside in usual magazines
newspapers and books.

We can talk about the Writings, our adaptation
effort to put the Writings in action, our difficulties,
but we cannot re-write the basic philosophy by inserting
all kinds of external material in it. And I think that is basically
what you do Richard.

We follow 1 program from a to z. Not 35.


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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:05 am


If you don't mind me asking: Do you believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God (or 'Prophet'), and thus that the Baha'i Faith is an "authentic" (God-sent) religion?



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Postby majnun » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:13 am

A simple question:
If we hang a photograph of
Abdu'l Baha on a wall of our
living room, is it considered
idolatry ?


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Postby brettz9 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:56 am

Hello all,

Richard, you are most welcome to share writings as you wish, and we will be more than happy to continue to respond to you whatever path you pursue. Although there is a grain of truth in Majnun's statements that human inventions really pale in comparison to God's Scriptures, and we do believe that there are many cults and philosophies which are distracting mankind from the purpose brought to it by God's Prophets, our Writings also indicate that we should be willing to acknowledge truth from whatever the source, and the writings I have seen you post contain very true, universal and well-expressed sentiments. Moreover, and perhaps more importantly, we are to show the utmost friendliness to all religionists. You need not fear Bahá'ís will reject you; anyone seriously claiming otherwise does not represent Bahá'ís.

As to your point about the Bahá'í teachings not being new, while we would agree with you in the Voice of God not being new, and in the ethical teachings not being new (although we believe the Spirit is making them new), we do believe that there are a number of teachings of Bahá'u'lláh which are quite new, exciting, and revolutionary--not only at the time and place they were revealed, but for today and the future of civilization. While we can certainly benefit from the study of timeless moral truths (and I hope you can confirm for yourselves that Bahá'í teachings and practice are replete with those teachings of forgiveness, love, peace and unity which are explicit or implicit in all past heavenly Scriptures), I believe you may find study of these unique aspects of our Faith (e.g., its social and administrative teachings) most rewarding and interesting.

As far as Majnun's statement about Fords, while it seems he was being metaphorical, it should go without saying that this is not a literally true statement for Bahá'ís.

In response to the question about a photograph of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Universal House of Justice wrote:

"Bahá'ís recognize that evil is negative and has no existence in its own right, but that does not mean that there is no power in evil. Do not Bahá'u'lláh and Abdu'l-Bahá warn us repeatedly of the spiritual infection of Covenant-breaking? In one of His Tablets, Abdu'l-Bahá wrote:

'If you seek immunity from the sway of the forces of the contingent world, hang the 'Most Great Name' in your dwelling, wear the ring of the 'Most Great Name' on your finger, place the picture of Abdu'l-Bahá in your home and always recite the prayers that I have written. Then you will behold the marvellous effect they produce. Those so-called forces will prove but illusions and will be wiped out and exterminated.'

"In a letter dated 26th November 1939 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer we find the following: 'Evil forces do take control of our life, but it is within our power to free ourselves from falling under their subjection.'

"There are, therefore, specific actions that Bahá'ís can take when confronted with the kind of situation of which you write, but the principal way in which they can overcome them is to deepen themselves in the Teachings of Bahá'u'lláh so that they will come to recognize the lack of any true reality to such negative forces.

There are other quotations insisting on 'Abdu'l-Bahá's picture being handled with reverence, and so on, so it is obviously not forbidden.

However, to respond to the accusation of some Muslims that we are worshipping Him:

"...he wishes me to explain that although Abdu'l-Bahá's station is not that of a Manifestation of God, nevertheless supplications may be addressed to Him. It is essential, however, that every believer should realize that while doing so he is directing his thoughts towards the Master as an intermediary between him and the Manifestation, and not as the Source of Divine Revelation and spiritual guidance. Provided this distinction is clearly established there can be no harm or objection in addressing prayers to Abdu'l-Bahá."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada, December 1, 1934: Bahá'í News, No. 89, February 1935, p. 4, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1621)

"If you find you need to visualize someone when you pray, think of the Master. Through Him you can address Bahá'u'lláh. Gradually try to think of the qualities of the Manifestation, and in that way a mental form will fade out, for after all the body is not the thing. His Spirit is there and is the essential, everlasting element."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, January 31, 1949: Bahá'í News, No. 222, August 1949, p. 2, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1622)

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:45 pm

richard wrote:Hello BW,
You wrote:

Ifyou don't mind me asking: Do you believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God (or 'Prophet'), and thus that the Baha'i Faith is an "authentic" (God-sent) religion?

Yes, and yes; imho, Baha'u'llah was, and is, a Major Manifestation of the spiritual truth and goodness of our One and Only God of All, not only from his spiritually superb teachings but from the life of spiritual grace he lived in the midst of detestable persecutions from his ignorant and malicious enemies over so many years.

So then, why not consider becoming a Baha'i, Richard? You apparently believe in the previous Prophets, such as Jesus, but Baha'u'llah makes the claim to be the newest in the line of messengers (which you believe). Could the reason why you see so much sectarianism and strife in other faiths, and essentially none in the Baha'i Faith (and there are no Baha'i sects)—could that, combined with the fact that the Baha'i Faith is more "organized" with its institutions and all, mean something? That Baha'is are much more united, and that they "walk the walk" (i.e. follow their principle of unity of all peoples: the Baha'i Faith, though small, is officially the second most widespread world religion). Specifically, could all this (and more) mean that the Baha'i Faith is the religion of Today, and that we should all strive to become members of it once the fragrance of the Baha'i writings has been wafted over to us? :)

Look forward to your response,


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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:46 pm

richard wrote: Well, BW, i appreciate you comments and question because they will help me to better understand myself and my relationship with our One and Only God, as well as with all others in His Universal Family... That said, i know it may seem your basic question, and the answer to it are simple, but i assure you it is not simple for me, and in fact, after i deeply examine my heart, mind, soul, and being, i hope i can find an answer that makes spiritual sense, not only to you, but to myself.

No argument there. Indeed, until you are fully sure, you should not identify with any creed. But you do, however, believe Baha'u'llah is God's newest Manifestation, and that the Baha'i Faith is His Religion, so there's some interest there.

richard wrote:Please have patience with me. When faced with difficult questions my best thoughts and "answers" come better after the passage of some time, prayer, and worship, as well as some good night sleeps with my heart, mind, and soul in a non-cognitive mode more open to the spiritual leadings of the indwelling Spirit of our One and Only God.

I apologize if I was too direct. I only asked because by you stating that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God you are "near-Baha'i" or even maybe Baha'i, though not formally as of yet.

richard wrote:Pray for me, BW, and know that i may be more surprised with my answer than you will be. And then again, will i be able, in this matter, be able to count on a clear answer from our God, or will He leave it up to my human freewill to make a choice that may be right or wrong, but will hopefully lead to spiritual learning what ever i do?

Sure, I'd be happy to send a prayer your way. You ask if God will give you a clear sign that the Baha'i Faith is the correct religion, or if He will leave it up to your own free will. Well, He has directed you to the Faith, hasn't He? How many laymen have heard of the Faith? At least in America—as I'm sure you'll agree—few (in places like India it might be a different story though). So isn't this His sign to you? He has directed you to a Faith and you yourself readily have recognized the Baha'i message and attested to its truth and to the truth of the claim of its Author. And I don't sense any hesitation in your saying that you believe that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation ('Prophet') of God.

richard wrote:Thanks again for your thought provoking comments and question... richard :oops:

And thank you for your fine reply. I have confidence that God will guide you in the right direction as He has been doing thus far. It is obvious that He has opened your spiritual eyes, and, being beyond the "Accept Jesus as your personal Savior" thing, you now see that there is much more to religion than merely believing in something or someone and thiniking God will take care of the rest. Religion has to better the individual and society, and it needs relevant teachings for its appointed Day. You see how holding fast to ancient beliefs (which have been annulled), or having no religious beliefs whatsoever, is not going to make the world a better place. In fact, quite to the contrary. Indeed, as I have said before, 'Abdu'l-Baha states that everying in this world is either in a state of progression or regression. This is an important point to keep in mind I think.

When most religions have been worn out, closed-minded people tend to emphasize the problems such as seen in sectarianism/violence, or whatever it may be, and attribute those problems to all the religions. Also they tend to scoff at religions claiming to have a new message for an ailing human race. Until recently the Baha'i Faith has not been recognized in religious text books or books on world religions. Ten years ago, one would have been hard hard-pressed to even find a single mention of the Baha'i Faith in any of the books in the "religion" section at Barnes and Noble. There is always initially is much resistance a new Religion (the Baha'i Faith), and there are many reasons why. Because society, having done away with religion, lost, has now turned to its own wayward lusts which it has been promoting with great fervor. They instead want to build their own man-made religion (because we all have an inherent need to believe in something), which today is called "Political Correctness," which, among many things includes promotion of atheism, banning of any mention of God in the classroom, promoting deviant sexual paraphilias (such malignant ideologies having infiltrated our movies, our music, our news, our text books, etc.), rebellion against figures trying to uphold morality and a belief system which includes belief in a God, etc. Even Christian sects, which were originally man-made, are now becoming even more man-made so that they conform with Political Correctness' standards (or lack thereof). God for them is just a "feel good" thing, and changing religion a political statement, but they won't let a God get in their way by prohibiting the things which excite their distorted, destructive lusts.

Man's only shelter today is religion. Without religion (or religious beliefs), the majority of people turn to the things which God banned—for good reason—in the first place. Most everyone is confused because there is no standard anymore to base what is moral as opposed to amoral. Then the people themselves have to decide to what is moral, but their decision is heavily influenced by the evil forces in society anyway, and thus their beliefs of what is/isn't moral has really no meaning. And then other societies for themselves will decide what is moral. And so, now the word "moral" is just a relative term, and might as well not exist. So: Having no direction, men turn into animals, concerned only with their own benefit, disgruntled and psychotic mothers kill their own dear babies (it's in the news practically every day—the other day in fact a mother microwaved her baby to death), everything "abnormal" is now being made "normal," and mankind is marching backwards into the darkness of barbarism. Yet those leading on the march don't see it in this light. And they don't realize that the problems that exist in society—the few problems which they do admit to—is the cause of irreligion, the monster that they themselves have created. The only Force that can fight this evil are the Legions of God, more specifically, the "legions of the army of Bahá'u'lláh" in the words of Shoghi Effendi. The only safeguard against a world destroying itself is indeed religion, that is, True religion, not man-made religion!

As always, I look forward to your superlative response.


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Integrated, Coordinated and Holistic Appraoch to Truth, Bea

Postby curt » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:57 pm

Hello Richard and Mountainally,

A few brief insights for you both.

I once had a conversation with a young Baha'i woman who grew up in a Baha'i household and was spoon fed the Baha'i Faith from infancy. I thought that was pretty neat but she said she was envious of me because I had to discover truth for myself. She wondered if she would have discovered truth for herself and felt circumstance denied her that opportunity. I have reflected a lot on that conversation over the years. But what was the truth that I discovered?

There was a particular moment while reciting one of Baha'u'llah's prayers years ago that I sensed that the clouds had parted and the sun shone through in all its glory. That was how it felt to me when the eye of the spirit was opened and I perceived spiritual worlds that cannot be expressed by words or intimated by allusion. It was not a physical or a rational experience but rather a definitive spiritual moment. It was not so much about beliefs, creeds, or religion as much as it was about a spiritual birth to a consciousness or awareness of a source of light that I wanted and needed to follow in this world, in the next and so on forever.

When I read the Gospels, the Quran or the Tablets of Baha'u'llah and the Bab, I sense that same irresistible Light of God and I do my best to follow.

So from my experience it is all about opening the eye of the spirit and, as the Bab says, stepping from darkness into the light.

I hope this is helpful to you both.


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Postby brettz9 » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:14 pm

Sorry, about my comment on the spiritual journey being anti-climactic, I meant that the understanding of some Baha'is that they have already reached the summit is anti-climactic and false. Maybe it could be seen as a summit for sure, but a summit which, once reached, we are to fly off of!

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