A Refutation of the Claim that Racism is Okay

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Zazaban
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A Refutation of the Claim that Racism is Okay

Postby Zazaban » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:56 pm

Some people of late have been making the claim that Racist views are supported in the Baha'i faith. I have created this topic to end this once and for all.

Points made by myself are bolded

Posted by Darrick Evenson on July 07, 2001 at 23:30:32:

"If man is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the
animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The
savage African tribes are evidence of this." (Promulgation p.111)

Clearly not in reference to Africans as a whole, but only to certain tribes

"The inhabitants of a country like Africa are all as wandering
savages and wild animals. They lack intelligence and knowledge; all are uncivilized; not one civilized and wise man is to be found
among them." (Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Baha, p.576)

Not that this is refering not to the race, but the people of a certian area. Not a comment of Racial inferiority, but on the sad state of african povery

"A man who had not a spiritual education is a brute. Like
the savages of Africa, whose actions, habits, and morals are
purely sensual, they act according to the demands of nature
to such a degree that they rent and eat each other." (Some
Answered Questions 29:5)

Not the race as a whole, but just the uncivilized

"Consider how often murder occurs among the barbarians of
Africa; they even kill one another to eat each other's
flesh and blood." (Some Answered Questions 77:13)

Again, not all Africans

August Forel:

"...the brain of the Negro is weaker than that of the white.
Even for their own good blacks must be treated as what they
are, an absolutely subordinate, inferior, lower type of man,
incapable themselves of cultrue. That must once and for
all be clearly and openly stated." (Foundations of the
Nineteenth Century, p.241)

'Abdu'l-Baha to August Forel:

"O reverend personage, lover of Truth!***Thy works are
no doubt of great benefit and if they are published send
us a copy!" (Tablet to August Forel)

This claim is very deceitful. One only needs to look at the Wikipedia artilce ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Forel ) To see that his Racist views are not as significant as any of his other achievements. These views did not even have as much significance to warrant inclusion on wikipedia!

Darrick Evenson


As you can see, the claim that Racism is supported by the Baha'i faith is absurd. [/url]
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh

Baha'i Warrior
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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:04 am

"O reverend personage, lover of Truth!***Thy works are
no doubt of great benefit and if they are published send
us a copy!" (Tablet to August Forel)


Don't these people realize that if 'Abdu'l-Baha were only to have written to people who didn't have any flaws, then He wouldn't have written to anyone? Covenant breakers-to-be were even praised. There is always something specific that is being praised, never the bad thing. Back then even science was racist, as one can readily see by looking back on the eugenicists. Anyone who thinks 'Abdu'l-Baha, by praising a racist, was encouraging the racism has obviously not read and understood the Baha'i writings. Heck, many of the early Baha'is themselves were not immune to racist ideology, that's how prevalent it was back then. It's like how liberal ideologies are so prevalent today. It's just that that was the thing back then. Had it not been for the Baha'i Faith, things would have gotten much worse, not better, regarding racism.

Further, it was 'Abdu'l-Baha who tried to bring the blacks and whites together—and in fact He tried to get the races to intermarry (which happened)! The Baha'i Faith was radical in that it was doing the total opposite of what the racists wanted. So anyone who claims that the Baha'i Faith supports racist views or racism "is a victim of his own fancy." If there is any religion that doesn't support "scientific racism" it is the Baha'i Faith, a fact anyone with even only a limited survey of the Baha'i writings would attest to.

Dorumerosaer
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Postby Dorumerosaer » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:36 pm

As Shoghi Effendi wrote to Forel's son after Forel's death, Forel had partially recognized the truths of the Baha'i Faith. This was a glaring fault in Forel's otherwise entirely compatible world view.

Perhaps similarly, Shoghi Effendi spoke of ALM Nicolas, who was an ardent proponent of the Faith of the Bab, as a "brilliant" writer. However, Nicolas was one of the most prominent anti-Semitic people of his day, and his writings inflamed racial hatreds that turned into pogroms in 19th century Europe.

The House of Justice has responded to this matter of the writings of Abdu'l-Baha talking about the effects of lack of education on the peoples of Africa. It cited statements from the Master about the so-called civilized peoples of Europe such as this: "On the other hand, when he engageth in warfare, quarrelling and bloodshed, he becometh viler than the most fierce of savage creatures, for if a bloodthirsty wolf devoureth a lamb in a single night, man slaughtereth a hundred thousand in the field of battle, strewing the ground with their corpses and kneading the earth with their blood." (Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 287)

Also it should be kept in mind that Shoghi Effendi's favorite continent was Africa; he was very attracted to the African people.

Brent

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You can't be MORE wrong!

Postby hugobjzq » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:14 pm

Under the current definition of "racism" 'Abdu'l-Baha was a RACIST. My "point" is that the current definition is a political slogan which does not correspond to Truth; either religious truth nor scientific truth. August Forel was a "scientific racist" and every indication so was 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Allah Is The Truth
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Postby Allah Is The Truth » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:58 pm

I don't want to believe 'Abdu'l-Baha held racist views, but these passages seem to speak for themselves. If you can find passages where 'Abdu'l-Baha speaks of white men and persians being savages, then maybe there can be something to said about this.
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the ternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto him.

Sura 112 (al-ikhlas) of the Noble Qur'an.

Dorumerosaer
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Postby Dorumerosaer » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:17 pm

>>I don't want to believe 'Abdu'l-Baha held racist views, but these passages seem to speak for themselves. If you can find passages where 'Abdu'l-Baha speaks of white men and persians being savages, then maybe there can be something to said about this.>>


"The present war in the Balkans furnishes a parallel of these conditions. Consider the bloodshed, ferocity and oppression manifested there even in this enlightened century; all of it based fundamentally upon religious prejudice and disagreement. For the nations involved belong to the same races and nativities, nevertheless they are savage and merciless toward each other. Similar deplorable conditions prevailed in Persia in the nineteenth century." (Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 81)

Brent

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:42 am

If i remember, I just refuted all the quotes you were using to support your claims. You are no longer supporting your argument with evidence.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

~ Bahá'u'lláh


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