Intorduction of Bab's 1st Book & a crucial question

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Irish
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Postby Irish » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:23 pm

'Abdu'l-Baha has apparantly written that the 12th Imam of Shi'ih Islam was not a real person ie. the 11th Imam had no son. I read that on Steve Lambden's website. His existence was a pious sham, invented by the divines to appease the doubts of the ordinary Shi'ihs.

Baha'u'llah has also clearly said, in the Gems of Divine Mystery, that all the peoples of the world are waiting for their 12th Imam to come from the Jabulsa and Jabulka of vain imagination (zunuun) and idle fancy (ahwaam).

Also, the Bab clearly explained in His later writings that He first put out that He was a Bab of the 12th Imam so that the people would not object to, reject and turn away from that for which they were created to recognize. Just cause He said that He was from the 12th Imam doesn't mean we can accept that literally. He station, as He later said, is much higher than an Imam.

Zazaban
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Postby Zazaban » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:16 pm

I heard that he actually fell down a well in Qom and died.

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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:15 pm

golha wrote:
Irish wrote:Also, the Bab clearly explained in His later writings that He first put out that He was a Bab of the 12th Imam so that the people would not object to, reject and turn away from that for which they were created to recognize. Just cause He said that He was from the 12th Imam doesn't mean we can accept that literally. He station, as He later said, is much higher than an Imam.


Dear Irish,
Do you mean that the Bab was deceiving people for some years?
I do not suppose divine persons behave so.


How was the Bab "deceiving"? God is all-knowing, and only He knows how much information men can handle at once. If you just read the Koran for example, especially in chronological order as in Rodwell's translation, you will see the development of Muhammad's laws over time. Sometimes Prophets change things, sometimes they add things, and sometimes they retract. There are many examples. To label such actions, especially negatively, would indeed be unenlightened to say the least.

The Bab returns in the spirit of the 12th Imam, even though He is a Manifestation (the Qa'im's station is very high according to hadith), just as Baha'u'llah returns in spiritual fulfillment of the prophesies of Jesus Christ, Maitreya, Krishna, and Imam Husayn for to name a few, but Whose main station is Manifestation of God. Cannot a Manifestation or Prophet return spiritually as more than one Person, and be simultaneously awaited by people of differing credal backgrounds?

Jonah
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Postby Jonah » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:16 pm

golha wrote:Where did The Bab claim that He returns in the spirit of the 12th Imam, and He is the a Manifestation?

While Baha'is accept The Báb as the Imam Mahdi himself, it's also the case that The Báb's "claim to prophethood" changed over the course of His ministry. There's a good article on this, and unfortunately I can't recall the author (but I'm sure it was Peter Smith, Stephen Lambden, or Christopher Buck). The article delineates four separate stages of The Báb's claims to Revelation, starting with the claim to merely be the gate to the Mahdi, and then the Mahdi Himself, and finally an Independent Manifestation. We might interpret this evolution as The Báb gradually coming to recognize the status of His ministry, or we could equally validly interpret it as The Báb choosing to share such information gradually.

Dorumerosaer
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Postby Dorumerosaer » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:53 pm

Steven Lambden has done a lot of work on the Qayyumul-Asma, you might find useful commentary there.
http://tinyurl.com/29mzys
Brent


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