Thank you for your interpretation of the Bab's actions. We really dont have the Bab saying what you have just interpreted. On the other hand, all we have is a series of claims followed by a series of denials.
Well, I quoted from a source. What kind of source do you want? Do you expect us to find a tape recording?
I am looking for a clear, unambigious, non-interpreted quotation from the Bab. Are you aware that the Bab had specifically prohibited the interpretation of his words?
Critics of Islam could make and have made the same arguments as you are making...Challenge the authenticity of the Qur'an, and so on. Do we have Muhammad's signature, etc.? How do we really know the Qur'an was written down by Muhammad? These are not worthy arguments. Only people who feel insecure in their own belief feel the need to persist in making them. The proof lies in its results--in its power to change people for good. Such-and-such tradition is an academic argument and of little relevance to a true believer, much as should be the traditions clung to by Jews or Christians which they understand to refute His Holiness Muhammad.
The argument here is about the Bab and the Bahai Faith. I assume that the veracity of Islam is beyond question. In fact even Shoghi acknowledges that of all books from Allah, the Quran is unaltered and in its original form. If we wish to discuss Islam, then lets do it at another place, not here.
The results are not a criteria. What will you take as results? 100,000 followers, 200,000 followers?? If size is the criteria, then a lot of other global religions, including Islam will outnumber the followers of the Bahai Faith. Size does not mean anything.
And for all that it is worth, the books of the Bab, which are conveniently "not available", are full of references to Mohammed Ibnil Hasan, the Mahdi of Islam.
Well, Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, has stated that most of the books of the Bab were corrupted by the Azalis. It was a tumultuous time. I believe he stated that only the Bayan and perhaps some other works were preserved. I don't have the information at hand right now.
So much for the results theory. The Quran which came more than 1,400 years ago is uncorrupted, despite the fact that Islam and Muslims were no less persecuted than the Bahais. Yet, the Bab's teachings which are about 150 years old are "conveniently" lost? We have only one, I prepeat, only one, book of the Bab - Selected Writings of the Bab? If his writings were altered and lost and corrupted as you have out it, where did SWB come out of? We should rephrase the sentence as "Only those books of the Bab which are detrimental to the cause of the Bahai Faith are considered to be altered or corrupted." Pardon the harshness, but there are sufficient books of the Bab available i their source languages which contradict the basic premise of the Bahai Faith - tafseere' Surah Kausar, Qayyamul Asma, Dalaelus Sabah, Sahifae' Adaliyah, Bayan etc. I could go on and on. Are all these books corrupted?
Is it a conspiracy that we don't have the original palm leaves of the Revelation of His Holiness, Muhammad? Were they "conveniently" lost?
Of course, the palm leaves were lost. Muslims never claimed to have them. But the original revelation of the Prophet - The Quran is with us as it was revealed. Islam has a rich culture of traditions and a scientific way to establish the veracity of the tradition with the Quran. But as I mentioned above, Islam is not under discussion here - the Bab is and lets stick to that.
Might I ask you whether you have considered whether you possess some fear of God and have some humility to question whether it is in fact possible that what you are mocking is in fact the True Faith from God? Does it scare you to consider you might be judged for your failure to show humility and some openness of heart when someone has come to you with news that might relate to His Great Announcement? Can it not be possible that words such as "everyone" will see Him, be understood in a different manner?
I could turn the same question back to you. You have progressed from Islam to a Faith which claims to have superceeded Islam. No problem with that. If you are correct, so be it. We Muslims must also have the opportunity to do so - but after establishing the veracity of the Faith. That is why I am and I guess a lot of others like myself are at this forum.
And if I look at your question differently, I am more fearful of the wrath of Allah as it is promised in the Quran - that of a physical resurrection. The Bahai punishment is very mild - closeness and farness from Allah - that means nothing to me really. I really do not understand it. Perhaps I may have or may not have experienced it in my life.
But yes, fire, burning, squeezing of the grave, accounting for my actions, reward and punishment, heaven and hell - I understand all that for I experience the fire of this world and I know that it burns - like Hell. So I fear the Islamic concept of the Day of Judgement more than the Bahai concept. Inshallah, I will tackle this in sometime in the future. Not now. For now the discussion is about the Bab.
With there being such prominent heresies in Islam out there as to suggest that people should act immorally in order to hasten the return of the Imam, I would think that any effort in trying to expunge heresies would focus a little more attention on these internal things and less on an independent Faith which clearly has produced both moral and social benefits on its practitioners and those in their arena of influence (and has done a pretty fine job of establishing the Truth of Muhammad to many Jews and Christians in the West such as many Muslims have been unable to do).
But arguing is easier than changing one's own morals, so we often see a lot of attention on the former.
Islam really has no need for the Bahai Faith to espound it case to Jews and Christians. The Bahai Faith needs to do that with Muslims like myself. We need to see logical, concrete and objective proof that the Bab was the Mahdi of Islam. For therein lies the key question - If the Bab was the Mahdi, then how. If he was not, then what happens to the Bahai Faith?
Therefore, lets talk about the Bab.