The Qa'im

All research or scholarship questions
British_Bahai
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Postby British_Bahai » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:28 am

abbas wrote:A Muslim is someone who believes in Allah, the Prophet Muhammad as the Final Messenger, a physical Resurrection, literal Heaven/Hell, literal Devil/Angels, etc. The term in my opinion fits well. When a Muslim does not believe in these teachings of the Prophet, they are therefore no longer Muslims, hence ex-Muslim.

:-s But if a Muslim believes in the teachings of his prophet Muhammad he would come across refences to the coming of two people (namely the Bab and Bahaullah).

So, he is not shunning the teachings of Islam and is believing in the prophecies foretold by Muhammad...

choogue
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Postby choogue » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:36 am

british_bahai wrote: But if a Muslim believes in the teachings of his prophet Muhammad he would come across refences to the coming of two people (namely the Bab and Bahaullah).

So, he is not shunning the teachings of Islam and is believing in the prophecies foretold by Muhammad...


Yes only if interpreted through the Bahai method. What the Muslims believe the authentic interpretations are through the Authentic Hadith is totally opposite what the Bahai's believe through their sources.

We have had plenty of these discussions on this forum british_bahai. You should look them up. :smile:

Regards
Abbas

Baha'i Warrior
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:07 am
Location: U.S.A.

Postby Baha'i Warrior » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:08 pm

abbas wrote:Yes only if interpreted through the Bahai method. What the Muslims believe the authentic interpretations are through the Authentic Hadith is totally opposite what the Bahai's believe through their sources.


It should be pointed out that Abbas' views only represent his own views, as there is much more diversity of thought in Islam than he suggests. Indeed, from the greatest Islamic scholars, to lay Muslims, to everyone in-between, there have been many who became Baha'is. Needless to say, someone who studies religion already knows this. I'm just writing this for the rest.

Ha. Mim. By this clear Book!
See! on a blessed night have we sent it down, for we would warn mankind:
On the night wherein all things are disposed in wisdom,
By virtue of our behest. Lo! we have ever sent forth Apostles,
A mercy from thy Lord: he truly heareth and knoweth all things–
Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth and of all that is between them,–if ye be firm in faith–
There is no God but He!–He maketh alive and killeth!–Your Lord and the Lord of your sires of old!
Yet with doubts do they disport them.
But mark them on the day when the Heaven shall give out a palpable SMOKE,
Which shall enshroud mankind: this will be an afflictive torment.
They will cry, "Our Lord! relieve us from this torment: see! we are believers."
But how did warning avail them, when an undoubted apostle had come to them;
And they turned their backs on him, and said, "Taught by others, possessed?"
Were we to relieve you from the plague even a little, ye would certainly relapse.
(XLIV: 1-14)

British_Bahai
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Postby British_Bahai » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:15 pm

abbas wrote:
british_bahai wrote: But if a Muslim believes in the teachings of his prophet Muhammad he would come across refences to the coming of two people (namely the Bab and Bahaullah).

So, he is not shunning the teachings of Islam and is believing in the prophecies foretold by Muhammad...

Yes only if interpreted through the Bahai method. What the Muslims believe the authentic interpretations are through the Authentic Hadith is totally opposite what the Bahai's believe through their sources.

We have had plenty of these discussions on this forum british_bahai. You should look them up. :smile:

(I know that when communicating online, sometimes the way someone has typed something can be interpreted in a way which was not originally intended. For this reason, I would like to make it clear that im not arguing or debating with you ;-) ).

Anyway, with regards to what you said above^^^ you have confused me. There is no "Bahai" way of interpreting things. Logic should be the only way of analysing any situation.

I take it youve read up on the Bahai faith, since you seem to know a little bit and have also mentioned that your girlfriend is Bahai. I just wanted to know whether or not youve come across come across 'Nabils Narrative'. (Basically, its a book about the history of the Faith. 'Nabils Narrative' is more of a shorter or summarised version of the fuller story: 'The Dawnbreakers' [both of which are available on this site]).

In the beginning of the book there are so many little mysteries that made me go "WOW". If you havent come across that book, promise me you will ask your girlfriend about it - its history is fascinating.

I would have typed some examples out for you, but my book is at home and my memory has been taken over by academia :banned:

I will read up on the previous posts...
Have a good day :kopfstand:

Keyvan
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Location: Los Angeles

Postby Keyvan » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:30 pm

the 12th Imam died, and his "return" was manifest in The Bab.
the Baha'i belief is that he lived and died and his return to do the work as the Imam Mahdi was dated to the point of the advent of the Day of Resurrection. the 12th Imam wrote a letter upon his passing outlining this to this effect.

no there wasnt a mystical occultation where the 12th Imam some how transcended mortal life, as the Ithna-Ashariyyih Shia believe; the dominant shia belief.

after the passing of the 12th Imam, as a means to keep a united shia community with a top-down administrative order this shia mystic interpretation of the letter was propagated by clerics even though it incorporates concepts of mysticism out of the blue without any textual reconciliation. since these leading clerics controlled the schools, that belief blanketed the entire shia community, and since people want to preserve and shelter what they were raised with, they had a knee-jerk reaction to The Bab suddenly coming in and refuting this mysticism, let alone proclaiming what is accurate and Himself as the completion of that prophecy.


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