In the prayer for parents, what does this line mean?

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British_Bahai
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In the prayer for parents, what does this line mean?

Postby British_Bahai » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:03 pm

Ive always wondered about these two points, but have never known the proper answer.
What does this mean???

* ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~
O Lord! In this Most Great Dispensation Thou dost accept the intercession of children in behalf of their parents(1). This is one of the special infinite bestowals of this Dispensation.(2)Therefore, O Thou kind Lord, accept the request of this Thy servant at the threshold of Thy singleness and submerge his father in the ocean of Thy grace, because this son hath arisen to render Thee service and is exerting effort at all times in the pathway of Thy love. Verily, Thou art the Giver, the Forgiver and the Kind!

'Abdu'l-Bahá

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This is my opinion
Only after the Bahai Faith (coz it says "In this Most Great Dispensation) Thou (God) accepts the Childs prayer ("intercession") and will cause the parent's soul to progress ("Therefore, O Thou kind Lord, accept the request of this Thy servant at the threshold of Thy singleness and submerge his father in the ocean of Thy grace...")

After saying that prayer, God will cause the parent's soul to progress. This is because the whole point of a marriage is to raise children who will make mention of God. The fact that the child is saying a Bahai prayer for his/her parents is in itself proof that the parents have done the right thing in raising the child, because the child obviously believes in God and hence the parent has fulfilled his/her duty as a parent ("because this son hath arisen to render Thee service and is exerting effort at all times in the pathway of Thy love.")

Im more interested in point #2 (See above). Whats so different/special about this dispensation with regards to prayers? (please dont reply by saying that this dispensation is special because Bahaullah is the promised one of all ages - im a bahai and am WELL aware of this).
Why is there such emphasis in this sentence? ("This is one of the special infinite bestowals of this Dispensation.")

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:26 pm

i came across this, i think this is the answer

______________________________________________________
some answered questions, topic #62
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-62.html


62: PERFECTIONS ARE WITHOUT LIMIT

Know that the conditions of existence are limited to the conditions of servitude, of prophethood and of Deity, but the divine and the contingent perfections are unlimited. When you reflect deeply, you discover that also outwardly the perfections of existence are also unlimited, for you cannot find a being so perfect that you cannot imagine a superior one. For example, you cannot see a ruby in the mineral kingdom, a rose in the vegetable kingdom, or a nightingale in the animal kingdom, without imagining that there might be better specimens. As the divine bounties are endless, so human perfections are endless. If it were possible to reach a limit of perfection, then one of the realities of the beings might reach the condition of being independent of God, and the contingent might attain to the condition of the absolute. But for every being there is a point which it cannot overpass—that is to say, he who is in the condition of servitude, however far he may progress in gaining limitless perfections, will never reach the condition of Deity. It is the same with the other beings. A mineral, however far it may progress in the mineral kingdom, cannot gain the vegetable power. Also in a flower, however far it may progress in the vegetable kingdom, no power of the senses will appear. So this silver mineral cannot gain hearing or sight; it can only improve in its own condition and become a perfect mineral, but it cannot acquire the power of growth, or the power of sensation, or attain to life; it can only progress in its own condition. 231

For example, Peter cannot become Christ. All that he can do is, in the condition of servitude, to attain endless perfections; for every existing reality is capable of making progress. As the spirit of man after putting off this material form has an everlasting life, certainly any existing being is capable of making progress; therefore, it is permitted to ask for advancement, forgiveness, mercy, beneficence and blessings for a man after his death because existence is capable of progression. That is why in the prayers of Bahá’u’lláh forgiveness and remission of sins are asked for those who have died. Moreover, as people in this world are in need of God, they will also need Him in the other world. The creatures are always in need, and God is absolutely independent, whether in this world or in the world to come.

The wealth of the other world is nearness to God. Consequently, it is certain that those who are near the Divine Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by God. But intercession in the other world is not like intercession in this world. It is another thing, another reality, which cannot be expressed in words.

If a wealthy man at the time of his death bequeaths a gift to the poor and miserable, and gives a part of his wealth to be spent for them, perhaps this action may be the cause of his pardon and forgiveness, and of his progress in the Divine Kingdom.

Also a father and mother endure the greatest troubles and hardships for their children; and often when the children have reached the age of maturity, the parents pass on to the other world. Rarely does it happen that a father and mother in this world see the reward of the care and trouble they have undergone for their children. Therefore, children, in return for this care and trouble, must show forth charity and beneficence, and must implore pardon and forgiveness for their parents. So you ought, in return for 232 the love and kindness shown you by your father, to give to the poor for his sake, with greatest submission and humility implore pardon and remission of sins, and ask for the supreme mercy.

It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed—that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice—for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God. Are not all the people in that world the creatures of God? Therefore, in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness and receive light through entreaties and supplications. Thus as souls in this world, through the help of the supplications, the entreaties and the prayers of the holy ones, can acquire development, so is it the same after death. Through their own prayers and supplications they can also progress, more especially when they are the object of the intercession of the Holy Manifestations.

dyesneancyDex
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Postby dyesneancyDex » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:23 pm

i have thought about this.

being a throw-away child and the son of two very lost people i have used this prayer to help me with compassion and understanding of all humans and to ease my anger.

but more to the point weren't alot of the early Babi/Bahai followers younger people? younger people who have been brought to the light despite the ignorance or their parents? or maybe because of thier ignorant parents? Parents that cursed thier children for being Bahai? Parents that debased themselves with their activities against the faith. against God.

As the child of the lost there is one thing that if offered a chance i would ask for: forgive my parents.

If they had not been such terrible parents i don't know that i would have found the faith. their error has reaped my submission.


It seems as though as time progresses this there will be a whole lot more people like myself comming to the faith.

I am not sure if this is the proper conclusion but, there are alot folks that were raised by very bad parents that have stopped the cycle. I personaly believe from my own observations that stopping is cycle is producing the virtues in the most unlikley places which in turn will produce more people pre-prepared for the message of the faith.

not only do i hold the fate of my own soul to push me to be the best Bahai i can be: there are two very lost souls that i am also responsible for.

this prayer is mana us cycle stoppers.

a divine healing.

again mHo.

Someone

dyesneancyDex
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Postby dyesneancyDex » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:24 pm

Also a father and mother endure the greatest troubles and hardships for their children; and often when the children have reached the age of maturity, the parents pass on to the other world. Rarely does it happen that a father and mother in this world see the reward of the care and trouble they have undergone for their children. Therefore, children, in return for this care and trouble, must show forth charity and beneficence, and must implore pardon and forgiveness for their parents. So you ought, in return for 232 the love and kindness shown you by your father, to give to the poor for his sake, with greatest submission and humility implore pardon and remission of sins, and ask for the supreme mercy.


i can see this also working very well as an explanation.

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:25 pm

but im still trying to figure this bit out and why this dispensation (the bahai faith) makes prayer for the parents different/unique, in comparison to other religions.
british_bahai wrote:* ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~
O Lord! In this Most Great Dispensation Thou dost accept the intercession of children in behalf of their parents(1). This is one of the special infinite bestowals of this Dispensation.(2)Therefore, O Thou kind Lord, accept the request of this Thy servant at the threshold of Thy singleness and submerge his father in the ocean of Thy grace, because this son hath arisen to render Thee service and is exerting effort at all times in the pathway of Thy love. Verily, Thou art the Giver, the Forgiver and the Kind!

'Abdu'l-Bahá

* ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~

my only hunch:
throughout time, man progresses materially and SPIRITUALLY.
perhaps its got something to do with that.

what do u think????

__________________________
someone: i didnt see your (longer) post until now

curt
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In the prayer for parents, what does this line mean?

Postby curt » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm

Hi BB & Someone,

Praying for one's parents is a spiritual practice that began, as far as I can tell, with the Bab. In the Persian Bayan, He revealed the following:

It is seemly that the servant should, after each prayer, supplicate God to bestow mercy and forgiveness upon his parents. Thereupon God's call will be raised: Thousand upon thousand of what thou hast asked for thy parents shall be thy recompense! Blessed is he who remembereth his parents when communing with God. There is, verily, no God but Him, the Mighty, the Well-Beloved. - p 94, Selections from the Writings of the Bab.

I agree with Someone in that praying for one's parents brings peace. I have found this to be true in my case as well. It was a remarkable discovery.

I think God is most merciful, compassionate and forgiving toward us when we are merciful, compassionate and forgiving towards others in turn. This just makes sense to me and has served me well in my relationships with parents, siblings, friends, etc.

Curt

Dorumerosaer
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Postby Dorumerosaer » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:52 pm

I think it means that since this is the greatest of the Dispensations, promised by all of the other Manifestations of God, that parents are richly blessed if their children recognize Baha'u'llah; and the prayers of Baha'i children for their parents have a special character and effect.
Brent

British_Bahai
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Postby British_Bahai » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:57 pm

pilgrimbrent wrote:I think it means that since this is the greatest of the Dispensations, promised by all of the other Manifestations of God, that parents are richly blessed if their children recognize Baha'u'llah; and the prayers of Baha'i children for their parents have a special character and effect.
Brent
thats what i was thinking - because it shows that the parents have done their duty (i.e. the duty of a parent is to have kids so the kids mention the name of God. and here, the kid has accepted Bahaullah)

great minds, eh ;-)


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