Can Bahais drink wine?

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Can Bahais drink wine?

Postby Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:45 pm

I know clearly that Bahais can't consume alcohol. But can Bahai drink wine? is wine alcoholic drink?

in the writings of Baha'u'llah, there are so many phrases like "the wine of bounty", "the wine of grace" , "the wine of His presence" etc etc. and He encourage us to try our best to drink those wines. If wine is equal to alcohol, why Baha'u'llah bother to use wine in his writings?

Thanks for reading it and I am looking forward to your help!

Jonah
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Postby Jonah » Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:20 am

Thanks for the question!

Wine is a symbol in a lot of Islamic and Baha'i texts -- though of course actual consumption of alcohol, including wine, is forbidden by both.

Here's a summary of the symbol I put together a few years ago: http://bahai-library.com/resources/tabl ... /wine.html . Here are the Baha'i teachings on alcohol: http://bahai-library.com/?file=prohibition_alcohol . And here's a meditation on the symbol of wine: http://bahai-library.com/?file=lee_choice_wine.html

-Jonah

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Postby brettz9 » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:48 pm

Here are two quotations about it:


"The wine mentioned in the Tablets has undoubtedly a spiritual meaning for in the book of Aqdas we are definitely forbidden to take not only wine, but every thing that deranges the mind. In poetry as a whole wine is taken to have a different connotation than the ordinary intoxicating liquid. We see it thus used by the Persian Poets such as Sa'di and Umar Khayam and Hafiz to mean that element which nears man to his divine beloved, which makes him forget his material self so as better to seek his spiritual desires. It is very necessary to tell the children what this wine means so that they may not confuse it with the ordinary wine."

(On behalf of Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Divine Guidance (vol 2), pp. 9-10)


"The consumption of wine and other intoxicants is prohibited in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (see notes 144 and 170).
Reference to the use of "wine" in an allegorical sense--such as being the cause of spiritual ecstasy--is found, not only in the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, but in the Bible, in the Qur'án, and in ancient Hindu traditions.
For example, in the Qur'án the righteous are promised that they will be given to drink of the "choice sealed wine". In His Tablets, Bahá'u'lláh identifies the "choice Wine" with His Revelation whose "musk-laden fragrance" has been wafted "upon all created things". He states that He has "unsealed" this "Wine", thereby disclosing spiritual truths that were hitherto unknown, and enabling those who quaff thereof to "discern the splendours of the light of divine unity" and to "grasp the essential purpose underlying the Scriptures of God".
In one of His meditations, Bahá'u'lláh entreats God to supply the believers with "the choice Wine of Thy mercy, that it may cause them to be forgetful of any one except Thee, and to arise to serve Thy Cause, and to be steadfast in their love for Thee".

(On behalf of the Universal House of Justice, Note 2 of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas)

Guest

Wine is a plague

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:12 pm

.
The average alcohol content in most wines is about
12 %, more or less. Wine is a now a world plague admonished
by wine producing countries like USA, Canada, France, Spain etc.
On the 19.org forum many young Brits advocate alcohol as a
mild relaxant, while others say “it’s my own liberty to drink”.

No arguments whatsoever will ever stop a child from putting his fingers
on the hot stove, until he feels the bitter burning resulting of his
curiosity, a curiosity many times enhanced by the parental advice:
“don’t touch the stove, you will burn your fingers”

The more we say Don’t Drink, the more they will touch the fire.


I think that the only liberty alcohol will give, is a prison without bars.

Can Baha’is drink wine ? The answer is a clear NO, but the best advise, could it be: go ahead child, burn your brain, come on…

And like Juan Cole used to say : Cheers !

Al hamdu lillah...
Majnun
.

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Sun May 29, 2005 5:19 pm

yeah its just figurative for "intoxication" of divine knowledge. wine is used a lot in persian poetry...but more litterally. so in usage Bahaullah is also in effect just discouraging the litteral, like in The Seven Valleys, as if to say dont get intoxicated off this horrible substance, get intoxicated on GOD and spirituallity.

majnun
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Wine

Postby majnun » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:42 pm

WINE

Dear Keyvan,

In the writings, the short word خمر Khamr used for intoxicants and "Khamr" is from the root word "Khamara" which means "to cover." Thus, anything that covers or hinders the mind is prohibited. This includes anything that alters the mind, such as marijuana, heroin, cocaine, alcohol, hashish, and anything else that affects the mind.
In English writings the term Khamr is translated by "wine".

Another words used in Hidden Words for wine is شراب (sharab)

Most of the time this wine term is close to a celestial adjective witch precise the meaning. Sometime it may be a negative thing like in verse 62 of Persian H-words: بخمر کدره فانيه
ba-Khamr kadar-ha fany-ha, that I could translate as : by the wine of mortal turbidness (or offense).

In most case, the figurative sense of the term is meant.
But in some tablets, reproaches are made (in think in Sura-i-muluk)
to some minister (vizir) who liked the liquid form of wine too much.
It don’t remember what exact terms were used by prophet Baha'u'llah, cause I don’t have these texts in Persian or Arabic.

Excuse this fancy demo.
I see you making progress, and
it is fun to watch.

Your friend Majnun.
.


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