My bahai father molested me

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fatherhater

My bahai father molested me

Postby fatherhater » Sat May 21, 2005 12:32 am

My Baha'i father molested me when I was 14 and I just recently told him not to contact me ever again after 9 years. My mother says she has forgiven him, and I could go into therapy with him in order to serve the Bahai principel of family unity.

I think my mother is thoughtless and in denial about the harm my father has done. I see her, not as I did before I told my entire family , but as a partner with the pervert that molested me.

I do not feel that what my father did can ever be forgiven , as a parent has an absolute obligation never to treat a child as a sexual object.

I am also seeing the Bahai faith as a vehicle to assuage my mother's uncomfortable situation, and I am no longer able to practice the faith.

WHat are your thoughts ??

:?:

Hasan
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Re: my bahai father molested me

Postby Hasan » Sat May 21, 2005 11:12 am

I think it is an issue of legal, moral and spiritual consequences. I can't comment because it is a matter of Bahá'í Institutions, the Bahá'í Law is not yet here, but I think you should not leave the Faith, but it is just my opinion. Your problem is so hard, but I have to say that Bahá'u'lláh always made justice, if not in this world then in the next one.

Should we comment this kind of issues here?

majnun
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Postby majnun » Sat May 21, 2005 9:24 pm

These things are very touchy, personal and sensible.
As in a few case, we suggest that you communicate
privately with a specialist because most of us do not
have the skills to understand as a professional therapist does.

On top of this, i think most honorable members of this
forum will shun themselves from whatever looks like the
mentality of a certain tv show witch speciality is to
make a huge drama of each case involved.

Like Hassan said, should we comment on this sort of issue ?
Majnun

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat May 21, 2005 9:49 pm

"On top of this, i think most honorable members of this
forum will shun themselves from whatever looks like the
mentality of a certain tv show witch speciality is to
make a huge drama of each case involved. "


What the heck does the above mean?

Don't the Baha'i have any writings on this sort of thing??


Everything can be discussed. anywhere, anytime.

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Wed May 25, 2005 2:06 pm

Thread continued here.

majnun
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Majnun answers to the "bad" father

Postby majnun » Thu May 26, 2005 11:02 pm

.
Dear F-H.

Please excuse this attitude of "shunning" a sensible subject,
in many case we know we are not specialist (like Dr Phil or others)
to emit a valid solution to all social "abnormalities", if i dare
take this light expression to resume what your lived trough.

After a while i had some thoughts on what you wrote about
the abuse of your father. The nickname you picked obviously talk.

Every human on this planet, has problem with the "father", or
those who had this role in their lives. If it can help you, i would like
to describe, quickly, some difficulties i had with my own dad, without
making a drama of my small story.

The valley 1 shows us to undo the programation (gestures, opinions,
even eating habits, traditions) that we took from ma and pa. This
concern our personal behavior. But the image of ma and pa is the
strongest implanted into human brains since we had them in front
of our faces all our lives. They were associated to exert autority on
us, little powerless children. This is the reality. Sexual abuses, and
many distortions of this type are not common, but not so uncommon.

Even if we try the hardest as we can, with the help of the inner exploration
guided by these valleys of Baha'u'llah, we can never erase a recorded
image from our inner hard disk (subconscious mind), but we can erase
the emotional feelings that are attached to this image. How to break these inner "ties" is indicated by the Valleys. But first we must become strong
enough to be able to look again at traumatising events.

There is another zone of the brain witch can help erase those
nasty feeling we hold against ma and pa : the dreaming zone.

In other words, if we become strong enough to express our wrath
and our anger against the father or the mother, we will afterward feel
free of those negative feelings. ATTENTION, it does not means we have
to face ma and pa and be angry or harm them physically, we just have to
express our ressentment to them secretly, to the image of them recorded in us. It is not necessary to see them we do not wish to, and in what
you explained to us, your father will have to carry this guilt maybe up
to the time he faces his creator.

I had this difficulty, even in dreams, to express vocally my anger toward
my dad, even tho he passed away 6 years ago. Maybe because im exploring that zone consciously, the dreaming zone, i realised i had
an inner blocage in vocalizing my hate for him, i did express many
dirt on him, but an invisible pressure blocked my voice. I realised the
what my difficulty was: a moral blockage that interdicted (haram) my
consience to be angry with him, because when i was a kid, my father
was my god. What little boy does not wish to become like his father ?

So i put my effort in expressing my anger towards him, secretely, but
with my entire identity. I think ill do the same for mom.

For whatever reason they hurted me, ill express my anger.
What he did to me is nothing compared to what you described in
your first posts, but still many things he did really got me angry.
So it is normal to hate our parents, and some people cannot support this
idea, they, unfortunately, kill them. But if we can express those bad
feelings, then, unusefull violence is eliminated.

If you succeed in doing that, i am sure that the following days
of your life will become serene, happy, because you will then
have broken the inner ties associated with those images recorded in
your deep mind. To liberate your mind of that accumulated
hate
should be the main goal before you begin to fly toward
"nirvana". The solutions given in the baha'i program are always
efficient and non violent.

If you cannot arrive to that point with the help of the baha'i program,
i am certain that a good therapist will liberate your conscience of that
burden (or prison) with a specialised more personal approach, giving
you clear indications, surely more efficient than what we baha'i
students can come up with.

The importance of this is crucial to all, because after this
"liberation", the fear of people who represent "authority" to
our conscience, that fear is erased forever.

I hope this may lead you to a greater inner peace
If you go trough the Valleys, with the time passing by,
you will acheive that peace inschaa Allah.

Majnun
.

Guest

Quoted from the book

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:29 am

The following is an excerpt from the book ‘Assisting the Traumatised Soul’ By Phyllis K. Peterson, it was published by Baha’i Publishing Trust Wilmette, Illinois in 1999. I think that you might well find it useful.

Pg 147-149

The Law of Justice

All Baha’is are encouraged to develop a virtuous attitude as part of their ongoing spiritual transformation. But some of us make error in how we perceive the way the virtue of forgiveness, for example, relates to the question of physical abuse, sexual abuse, and domestic violence. Although we are ready to forgive those who are psychologically ‘sick,’ we must exercise caution in this area. The abuse of others is a spiritual sickness that needs to be confronted and named as a crime so that measures can be taken to protect the defenceless. In this- quotation Abdu’l-Baha verifies that a “crime” requires consequences:

If a person commit a crime against you, you have not the right to forgive him… (Paris Talks 47.5)

And in Advent of Divine Justice we find:

The canopy of existence… resteth on the pole of justice, and not of forgiveness, and the life of mankind dependeth on justice and not on forgiveness. (Pg. 24)

And again in Baha’i World Faith:

It is not advisable to show kindness to a… tyrant, a traitor or a thief, because showing kindness encourages him to become worse and does not awaken him. (Pg. 412)

Oscar Arrambide clarifies further the principles of forgiveness and justice:

In other writings by Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, it is made clear that individuals are to forgive, as individuals, but that they must seek justice as members of the social order.
You may find it in your heart –in fact you must find it- personally to forgive someone who has harmed you, rather than seek revenge, but you also have a duty to see that he or she is safely put away in jail (if need be) for the protection of society. This clarifies the apparent flaw that many find in the Christian teaching of “turning the other cheek.” A confused Christian may ask what, then, is to stop the bully from bullying? The Baha’i answer is the Law of Justice.

Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. There can be no reconciliation with a person who is denying the immoral acts they are perpetrating and refuses therapy to help end their sexual abuse of children, which, according to the Universal House of justice, is a “perversion of human conduct.” (Letter UHJ to individual believer Jan 1993, printed in “The American Baha’i” Nov 23 1993 Pg. 10) Baha’u’llah forgave Mirza Yahya. He did not reconcile with him, but He left the door open in the event that Mirza Yahya might repent.
True repentance includes humbling yourself, changing your behaviour, becoming responsible for you present and future moral choices.

Appendix II Pg.183

…A parent who is aware that the marriage partner is subjecting children to such sexual abuse but must take all necessary measures, with the assistance of the Spiritual Assembly or civil authorities if necessary, to bring about an immediate cessation of such grossly immoral behaviour and to promote healing and therapy.
Baha’u’llah has placed great emphasis on the duties of parents toward their children, and He has urged children to have gratitude in their hearts for their parents, whose good pleasure they should strive to win as a means of pleasing God Himself.

However, He has indicated that under certain circumstances, the parents could be deprived of the right of parenthood as a consequence of their actions.
The Universal House of Justice has the right to legislate on this matter.
It has decided for the present that all cases should be referred to it in which the conduct or character of a parent appears to render him unworthy of having such parental rights as that of giving consent to marriage. Such questions could arise, for example, when the parent has committed incest or when the child was conceived as a consequence of rape, also when a parent consciously fails to protect the child from flagrant sexual abuse.

All About Joye

My bahai father molested me

Postby All About Joye » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:09 pm

Dear Heart ~

I’ve just today found this website. I realize it’s been quite some time since your posting, but I’m hoping my experience will help you, or perhaps someone else.

I was molested by my step-grandfather for some years as a young girl/young teenager. I was not Bahai then, but Christian. As a very young woman, in my late teens, I began to forgive him because Christ instructed us to do so. I leave Justice in God's hands. When I attended 12-step programs for incest survivors the people there said I must be angry, that I could not forgive, that I must confront my abuser. So I did. The interview did not go well. He has never grown spiritually to the point where he understands what he did. In this life, he never will.

I understand we are all imperfect beings. I do not regret forgiving him. Yes, there is damage, deeper than I even know. But I am not consumed with anger, bitterness, or need for revenge. I am far more healthy than he is. My life is immeasurably richer than his, and we simply cannot relate in any meaningful way. Therefore, I have nothing to do with him. As a Bahai, I am grateful that God hears our prayers for forgiveness of the sins of our parents. I am grateful that God created us all from Love, that no soul is completely lost. I believe that, when grandfather goes to the next world and learns the severity of the damage he inflicted, he will know remorse, and then healing of his soul may happen and he may begin to progress as God created him to be. It is all in the Hands of God.

Forgiveness is not easy. I cannot advise you on how to relate to your abuser, or your mother. But I know a couple of things. (1) Your healing is in God’s hands. I hope you are making rapid progress so you can live a more loving and meaningful life serving Him in whatever capacity He asks of you. (2) Forgiveness became easier for me when I discovered a verse in the Bible in which His Holiness the Christ teaches that THERE IS ONLY ONE UNFORGIVABLE SIN: To Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. To me this means that God forgives murder, rape, even the monsters of the Holocaust may be forgiven! God’s mercy is infinite, and God alone is the judge of my abuser. I can know peace.

I pray you read this, and that it will help you toward greater healing and peace.

majnun
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For a quick recovery

Postby majnun » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:54 pm

Fortunately, there is one method to dissolve old wounds.
In the valleys, Baha'u'llah show us how to untie these things.
It is like two wires attached by soldering. You all know how to
use a soldering iron to make a solid binding.

To undo this internal binding, we have to re-apply the same
heat, on the same spot, where it hurts, to melt down (fusion)
the link. While focusing on the event (the bad souvenirs), acid
water will come out of our eyes, maybe for days. This acid rain
will weaken the link inside. It is like putting out the fire with fire.
The image of the rays of the sun, passing trough a crystal (or lense),
is to explain how to use this method, to become free of those
hurting links (emotional).

Majnun.
.

Baha'i Warrior
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Re: My bahai father molested me

Postby Baha'i Warrior » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:26 pm

Dear All About Joye,

Thank you for your contribution, but I think that—this being a Baha'i message board—we should strive to be accurate and stick to the Writings on these issues, and try to avoid as much as possible formulating our own opinions on certain topics that have already been addressed in the Baha'i teachings.

I would just like to comment on what you said about unforgivable/forgivable sins. As you said, the Bible states that blasphemy against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. As Baha'is, we respect the Bible, however, in this Dispensation that is not an unforgivable sin. As you know, even a Covenant breaker may be admitted back into the Faith if he changes his ways, provided the UHJ gives him back his rights.

Tyranny is an unforgivable sin in the Baha'i Faith. So those "monsters of the Holocaust" that you referred to, according to the Blessed Beauty, will not be forgiven. The Blessed Beauty says:

"O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man's injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal."

An important principle in the Baha'i Faith is obedience to one's government. So much so that the Master says:

"Any abasement is bearable except betraying one's own country, and any sin is forgivable other than dishonoring the government and inflicting harm upon the nation."

Source: http://bahai-library.com/nsa/ban.bahais.iran.html

Even though what the Master says might at first seem to be a contradiction, upon closer examination, it is not. There are two types of contradictions: (1) Apparent contradictions, where the contradiction can be resolved at a higher level of understanding, and (2) real contradictions.

I have not come across any other 'unforgivable sins' in the Writings. However—I do not have a source—but I believe I have read in the Writings that another unforgivable sin is a father's failure to educate his son. However, I am still looking for a source so do not take my word for it, I could be wrong.

My point is that, being Baha'is, we represent the Faith and we should really try hard to stick to the Writings rather than letting, say, our emotions/personal beliefs get in the way. In fact, if one has a personal belief that contradicts the Writings, that "belief" is meaningless.

-Warrior

Hasan
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Re: My bahai father molested me

Postby Hasan » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:42 am

Baha'i Warrior wrote:
As you said, the Bible states that blasphemy against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. As Baha'is, we respect the Bible, however, in this Dispensation that is not an unforgivable sin.

It is evident that the souls receive grace from the bounty of the Holy Spirit which appears in the Manifestations of God, and not from the personality of the Manifestation. Therefore, if a soul does not receive grace from the bounties of the Holy Spirit, he remains deprived of the divine gift, and the banishment itself puts the soul beyond the reach of pardon.
This is why many people who were the enemies of the Manifestations, and who did not recognize Them, when once they had known Them became Their friends. So enmity toward the Manifestation did not become the cause of perpetual banishment, for they who indulged in it were the enemies of the light-holders, not knowing that They were the shining lights of God. They were not the enemies of the light, and when once they understood that the light-holder was the place of manifestation of the light, they became sincere friends of it.
The meaning is this: to remain far from the light-holder does not entail everlasting banishment, for one may become awakened and vigilant; but enmity toward the light is the cause of everlasting banishment, and for this there is no remedy.
('Abdu'l-Bahá, SAQ, Chapter 31)

Baha'i Warrior wrote:
An important principle in the Baha'i Faith is obedience to one's government. ...Even though what the Master says might at first seem to be a contradiction, upon closer examination, it is not. There are two types of contradictions: (1) Apparent contradictions, where the contradiction can be resolved at a higher level of understanding, and (2) real contradictions.

Just a couple of pilgrim quotes from here: http://bahai-library.com/pilgrims/maxwell.notes2.html
If our government forbids us to teach the Cause, we must obey - but never recant. Anything that dishonours the Cause we must not obey, but anything that retards the Cause, we must obey. The only way we can reconcile the "obey our Government" and other things in the Cause is to see whether it is an administrative thing at issue or a spiritual one. We are not ashamed of what might retard the Cause, but we cannot have it humiliated.
In administrative matters we must obey the Government, in spiritual matters we need not obey. If the Government says dont meet such a person, we must obey. It does not mean we have antagonism towards him, but if the Government requires us to denounce him, speak evil of him, this is violating a spiritual principle. The law may say we discourage you from doing such and such a thing - we need not obey - we must obey what is prohibited. We are weighing the two; discouragement by Government and a spiritual principle.
We will never obey in violating a spiritual principle, even if the law commands it. If the Government lays down a law that the Bahais must denounce a Jew, we will never do it, but if the Government says we must avoid him, we obey. We must not rely on the Interpretation of others. We must get the text of the law.

Baha'i Warrior wrote:
I have not come across any other 'unforgivable sins' in the Writings. However—I do not have a source—but I believe I have read in the Writings that another unforgivable sin is a father's failure to educate his son. However, I am still looking for a source so do not take my word for it, I could be wrong.

"This is a sin unpardonable, for they have made that poor babe a wanderer in the Sahara of ignorance, unfortunate and tormented: to remain during a lifetime a captive of ignorance and pride, negligent and without discernment. Verily, if that babe depart from this world at the age of infancy, it is sweeter and better. In this sense, death is better than life; deprivation than salvation; non-existence lovelier than existence; the grave better than the palace; the narrow, dingy tomb better than the spacious, regal home; for in the sight of mankind that child is abased and degraded and in the sight of God weak and defective. In gatherings it is ashamed and humiliated and in the arena of examination subdued and defeated by young and old. What a mistake is this! What an everlasting humiliation!"
('Abdu'l-Bahá: Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Vol.III, p. 579)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 145)
"...That is, it is enjoined upon the father and mother, as a duty, to strive with all effort to train the daughter and the son, to nurse them from the breast of knowledge and to rear them in the bosom of sciences and arts. Should they neglect this matter, they shall be held responsible and worthy of reproach in the presence of the stern Lord."
('Abdu'l-Bahá: Selections from the Writings of ' 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 1982, pp. 126-127)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 144)


P.S. Sometimes there is even worse education than "Sahara of ignorance" - very sad


<b>note from moderator: Thread continued here.</b>


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