Aghsan - Afnan family trees

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Keyvan

Aghsan - Afnan family trees

Postby Keyvan » Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 pm

does anyone know of any good online family trees of Aghsan and Afnan families.
its really hard to find. thanks

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Postby Jonah » Mon May 30, 2005 11:57 pm

Here you go, compliments of Ahang Rabbani: <a href=http://bahai-library.com/?file=rabbani_afnan_genealogy>Genealogy of the Afnan</a>. I also found a <a href=http://bahai-library.com/?file=abid_dawnbreakers_genealogy_babi>genealogy of the Bab</a> and this <a href=http://bahai-library.com/?file=gonzales_genealogy_shoghieffendi>genealogy of Shoghi Effendi</a>

-Jonah

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Re: Aghsan - Afnan family trees

Postby Hasan » Tue May 31, 2005 12:25 am

Yeah, it is hard to follow the tree, especially the genealogic tree of Bahá'u'lláh, of the Báb is easier (there are a lot of Afnán), but I think is important to follow the tree, though there is no Aghsán alive or male descendents (spiritually talking), the genealogic sanguine tree continues anyway.

If is important to you, Ali Nakhjavani http://bahai-library.com/?file=nakhjava ... &chapter=2 mentioned seven Aghsán alive at the time of the Guardian, but unfortunately all of them broke the Covenant before Shoghi Effendi’s death.

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Tue May 31, 2005 10:13 am

Thanks a lot. do you think theres any record of the after 1957. i mean we know of the ones that broke the covonant, but theres no sort of "covonant breakers: where are they now?" kinda thing. and i mean it is important if were gonna be tracking the next manifestation. with all the intermarriage at the time between Aghsan and Afnan, it seems clear that the goal was to make sure that every Aghsan was also Afnan and every Afnan was also Aghsan...and I guess from there maybe they wanted to either contain that line or just let it go off like Seyyid.
I think tracking it is important. my girlfriend has a last name that only seyyid have, she didnt even KNOW she was a descendent of Muhammad until i explained it to her, wouldnt like to see that happen for the Aghsan.

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Postby Hasan » Tue May 31, 2005 9:28 pm

In some ancient cultures the people had the custom to record their ancestors, a healthy custom I think.

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Postby Hasan » Tue May 31, 2005 11:36 pm

Keyvan wrote:do you think theres any record of the after 1957


Yes, I know (privately) someone is doing this, but I don't think he is the only one.

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Postby Hasan » Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:39 pm

Could anyone respond these questions?

1) Are the Afnán descendants from the maternal uncles of the Báb, or the paternal uncles or both?
2) Are the females called Afnán too, or just the males?
3) Are the Aghsán descendants of Bahá’u’lláh only or also of His brothers like Mirza Musa or Mirza Muhammad-Quli?
4) Are the Aghsán descendants of Bahá’u’lláh trough His three wives or just of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá?

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what for ?

Postby majnun » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:39 am

I read along this tread.
What is the use of this ?
i mean is it not like finding some proof ?
To attach the messengers to the Sayyid line ?
Why do we need absolute proof to put
the revelation in action in our lives ?
This intellectualisation is a loss of time.

Did not Baha'u'llah said : cut the roots with
your ancester ? Brain reactivation trough the
writings is more important than accumulating
historical data (rhetoric) that will freeze your
brain.

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:43 am

Majnun, i respect that and agree with you.
my purpose in asking such questions is not to mastery of the past simply for that sake in and of itself, but rather to learn a science behind these trends as an outlook for who, what, where, and when of the future.


Keyvan

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Postby majnun » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:34 pm

Ideally, i would have like to
be able to follow the evolutive
knowledge offered by Kazim and
those before the Bab, along with
all of what the Bab wrote, but unfortunately,
theese are not availuable in our langage.

Omid

Postby Omid » Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:36 pm

There are Aghsan and Afnan people around. That is to say direct decsendants of Baha'u'llah. SO, in fact Baha'u'llah's great, great, great, great son is around. I know it because I once was interested too. But, although they know of their lineage, they do not want to be focused on or have any attention from the Bahais. We have to remember that after the War Palestine became a British territory and the zionist movement kicked in. Mirza Muhammad Ali and his brothers Badi'u'llah and the other one, I forget his name all basically dispersed from the holy land and were absorbed back into the Muslim society (See Covenant of Baha'u'llah). It would be my guess that these folks who are descendants live some where in Jordan or Lebanon now and more likley that not speak Arabic rather than Farsi. :roll:

My advice is not to worry too much about it.

This is not like a Da Vinci Code cover up. Its really no big deal. The point is these people's ancestors cut there link to the Holy family by there actions. The decsendants dont seem to moved to care.

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:45 am

Omid wrote:There are Aghsan and Afnan people around. That is to say direct decsendants of Baha'u'llah. SO, in fact Baha'u'llah's great, great, great, great son is around. I know it because I once was interested too. But, although they know of their lineage, they do not want to be focused on or have any attention from the Bahais. We have to remember that after the War Palestine became a British territory and the zionist movement kicked in. Mirza Muhammad Ali and his brothers Badi'u'llah and the other one, I forget his name all basically dispersed from the holy land and were absorbed back into the Muslim society (See Covenant of Baha'u'llah). It would be my guess that these folks who are descendants live some where in Jordan or Lebanon now and more likley that not speak Arabic rather than Farsi. :roll:

My advice is not to worry too much about it.

This is not like a Da Vinci Code cover up. Its really no big deal. The point is these people's ancestors cut there link to the Holy family by there actions. The decsendants dont seem to moved to care.


Thank you. im actually corresponding now with someone who has set out to track the modern day records and whereabouts of the lineage post 1957. people have told me not to worry about it, and just focus on the Cause now, i understand why. but the thing is, i think its important to worry about it, i think thats whats going to prevent us from making the same mistake 847 years from now. Muhammadeans have told me they dont care about The Mahdi, they just will follow the prescriptive ordanances and prepare their souls.
if were knowledgable, researched, and ready , we wont make the same mistake ;)

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:20 pm

Omid wrote:My advice is not to worry too much about it.
This is not like a Da Vinci Code cover up. Its really no big deal. The point is these people's ancestors cut there link to the Holy family by there actions. The decsendants dont seem to moved to care.


I think this issue is important BUT not so important, I presume few people are recording the lineage of Bahá’u’lláh and the Báb.

I also think is important to record the family’s ancestors, I think it is a good custom to know where is one’s past, the origin, etc.


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