Progress in China

All research or scholarship questions
Keyvan

Progress in China

Postby Keyvan » Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:21 pm

Does anyone have any statistics about the Bahai growth rate in China???

brettz9
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Postby brettz9 » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:33 am

The Bahá'í Faith does not have any administration in China, so we cannot offer any information on the number of people who may have chosen to accept the Bahá'í Faith. Any foreign Bahá'í visiting China is not to proselytize. Bahá'ís are interested in rendering service in whatever country they reside and demonstrate loyalty to that government and its people.

best wishes,
Brett

Hasan
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Lima - Perú
Contact:

Postby Hasan » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:53 am

brettz9 wrote:The Bahá'í Faith does not have any administration in China, so we cannot offer any information on the number of people who may have chosen to accept the Bahá'í Faith. Any foreign Bahá'í visiting China is not to proselytize. Bahá'ís are interested in rendering service in whatever country they reside and demonstrate loyalty to that government and its people.


Thanks for information Brett, I think the Government of these countries doesn’t authorize the functioning of Bahá'í institutions:

China
Cuba
North Korea
Iran (Iraq not?)
Saudi Arabia (and the entire Peninsula, Emirates, Yemen, etc.)
Jordania
Israel (except for the BWC)
Palestine
Syria

Is this correct? (Or I am crazy?) :D

Hasan
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Lima - Perú
Contact:

Postby Hasan » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:33 am

not Cuba, :oops:

brettz9
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Postby brettz9 » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:45 am

In some of the cases you mentioned, it may be because we have not sought recognition.

Brett

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:50 pm

hmm. interesting. thanks. why does the chinese govt even let us in though?

Dawud
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:59 pm

Postby Dawud » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:21 pm

The Chinese government officially recognizes five religions: Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, Protestantism, and Catholicism (in a form that doesn't recognize the pope). All of these are supervised by national "patriotic" organizations.

In addition to these, there exist an uncertain number of "house churches" and the like. This activity is probably illegal, though often tolerated and occasionally even encouraged. (Often it is difficult to determine what is actually legal or illegal, since suppression often takes the form of administrative regulation or self-motivated governmental action rather than law per se. Technically the Chinese constitution guarantees freedom of religion!) Special scrutiny is reserved for qigong groups (remember Falungong) and Islamic groups.

Russian Orthodoxy is not recognized at the national level, but has several churches and appears to be tolerated. Jews have been negotiating for some sort of recognition. The Tibetan religion of Bon receives some governmental support. Individuals may claim other religions which are not represented institutionally.

Religious activity by foreigners, which is limited to foreigners, is generally tolerated. Foreigners who appear to be encouraging local co-religionists are likely to bring trouble down on the locals' heads. That said, the Chinese government surely wouldn't care that much about Baha'i, except possibly in Xinjiang, where its presence would offend Muslims. (I hear there are a few hundred of you there.)

If you really want to know about Chinese Baha'is, I would start by contacting your co-religionists in Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Macao, where the religion is legal.

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:33 pm

I actually have family pioneering in Macau and have been for 10 years. They say its been rapidly growing.

So are we on any sort of plan to gain recognition? anyone know?

brettz9
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:12 pm
Contact:

Postby brettz9 » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:17 pm

China has opened up considerably to the outside world in the past few decades.

China is eager for development--in a material sense this means interest in technical and economic expertise and access to English. In a social sense, it can mean interest in familiarizing its population and leaders with foreign (especially Western) thought, systems, and beliefs in order to obtain benefits from or at least understanding of them--but in a manner so as not to lose the perceived (and I think very real) benefits of its own culture and traditional (sustainable) morality.

For such reasons, the Chinese authorities welcome foreign guests who have something to offer in the above areas--so long as they do not interfere in politics, and obey the laws of the country (which of course we are obligedby our own Faith to do anyhow).

The common understanding of China in the West as it being as during the days of the Cultural Revolution is not accurate.

You are welcome to email me if you would like to discuss it more in depth. (brettz9 a-T yahoo.com ).

Brett

Hasan
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Lima - Perú
Contact:

Postby Hasan » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:04 pm

Thank Brett for clarification, I'd like to know in what countries the Bahá'í Administration is forbidden by the Government.

Could be these ones? thanks.

Iran
Indonesia
Saudi Arabia (and the whole peninsula)
North Korea
Israel (except the BWC)
Jordan
Syria
Libya?

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:45 pm

An individual had submitted to our wiki page (presently offline) that "The House of Justice has written, in a letter to an individual believer dated 4 May 2003, with regard to a request for information about National Assembly formation in sensitive countries that “it would be best...not to pursue this undertaking any further.…”" This was apparently in reference to details beyond that specified in other pubilcations authorized by the Baha'i World Centre.

Indonesia, for your reference, as of 2000, reformed its National Spiritual Assembly. Jordan is also listed (from a list compiled from authoritative pubilc sources) as having a National Assembly

Although it may perhaps be a mutual desire to avoid adding more religions to the mix, it has been a policy since the time of 'Abdu'l-Baha for Baha'is not to live in the Holy Land besides at the World Centre.

best wishes,
Brett

Here's the list the individual compiled:

List I

List I shows all countries with functioning National or Regional Spiritual Assemblies as of Ridván, 2004. This list only shows the current name of each National Assembly, and does not detail a history of name changes or jurisdictional adjustments.

For example, in 1951 the Regional Spiritual Assembly of Central America, Mexico, and the Antilles was formed with its seat in Panama City. In 1957, this RSA was subdivided into two RSAs, one for Mexico and Central America (with its seat in Panama), and the other for the Greater Antilles (with its seat in Haiti). In 1961, these two RSAs were further subdivided into individual National Spiritual Assemblies for the following 11 countries: Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, and Panama.

Because of the difficulty of tracking all of these changes in name and jurisdiction in a simple list, the names and dates of operation shown in List I refer only to the first NSA or RSA having its seat within the specified country. Therefore, for the example above, List I will show: Panama (1951-present), Haiti (1957-present), and the remaining nine countries as (1961-present).

List II

List II shows all countries that have had functioning National Spiritual Assemblies in the past. These Assemblies are no longer functioning due to restrictions placed on Bahá’í activities by their respective governments, or occasionally due to severe civil strife, warfare, or genocide.

List III

List III shows countries that are no longer independent, having been annexed by another country, but which had functioning National Spiritual Assemblies prior to their annexation.

List IV

List IV shows all independent countries that have never had their own National Spiritual Assembly. This may be due to governmental restriction/persecution, civil war, dangerous or difficult conditions, or simply a lack of sufficient numbers of Bahá’ís to justify a National Assembly.

List V

List V is a special case, further described below:

(TO-DO)
Include quotation here on situation of Bahá’ís in the Holy Land.)

Sources

Information for these lists has been researched and compiled from the following sources:

God Passes By, Shoghi Effendi
Messages to the Bahá’í World 1950-57, Shoghi Effendi
Ministry of the Custodians, An Account of the Stewardship of the Hands of the Cause 1957-63, Universal House of Justice
Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1963-86, Universal House of Justice
The Bahá’í World, Volumes XIII-XX (covering the years 1954-92), Bahá’í World Centre
Ridván Letters (1964-2004), Universal House of Justice
The Bahá’ís (magazine), Bahá’í International Community

Notes on completeness/accuracy of information

Some information regarding sensitive countries, especially in the Middle East, South East Asia, and parts of Africa, is incomplete or incorrect. The House of Justice has written, in a letter to an individual believer dated 4 May 2003, with regard to a request for information about National Assembly formation in sensitive countries that “it would be best...not to pursue this undertaking any further.…” Therefore, information in the lists below is taken only from the sources shown above, all of which have been approved and published by the Bahá’í World Centre. More detailed or accurate information regarding sensitive countries should not be included in these lists until such time as the House of Justice indicates it to be safe and appropriate. Corrections or additions regarding non-sensitive countries are welcome at any time.

Listing

I) Currently Functioning National or Regional Spiritual Assemblies (Dates of Operation)

Alaska (1957-present)
Albania (1992-present)
Andaman and Nicobar Islands (1984-present)
Angola (1992-present)
Arabian Peninsula (1957-present)
Argentina (1951-present)
Armenia (1995-present)
Australia (1934-present)
Austria (1959-present)
Azerbaijan (1925-38, 1992-present)
Bahamas (1978-present)
Bahrain (1967-present)
Bangladesh (1972-present)
Barbados (1972-present)
Belarus (1995-present)
Belgium (1957-present)
Belize (1967-present)
Benin (1970-present)
Bermuda (1981-present)
Bolivia (1961-present)
Botswana (1970-present)
Brazil (1961-present)
Bulgaria (1992-present)
Burkina Faso (1977-present)
Burma (1959-present)
Cambodia (1994-present)
Cameroon (1964-present)
Canada (1948-present)
Canary Islands (1984-present)
Cape Verde Islands (1984-present)
Central African Republic (1970-present)
Chad (1971-present)
Chile (1961-present)
Colombia (1961-present)
Congo, Republic of (1971-79, 1992-present)
Congo, Democratic Republic of (1970-81, 1988-present)
Cook Islands (1985-present)
Costa Rica (1961-present)
Cuba (1961-present)
Cyprus (1978-present)
Czech Republic (1991-present)
Denmark (1962-present)
Dominica (1983-present)
Dominican Republic (1961-present)
Eastern Caroline Islands (1972-present)
East Leeward Islands (1981-present)
Ecuador (1961-present)
El Salvador (1961-present)
Equatorial Guinea (1973-76, 1984-present)
Eritrea (1995-present)
Estonia (1992-present)
Ethiopia (1961-present)
Fiji (1959-present)
Finland (1962-present)
France (1958-present)
French Guiana (1984-present)
Gabon (1984-present)
Gambia (1970-present)
Georgia (1995-present)
Germany (1923-37, 1947-present)
Ghana (1970-present)
Greece (1977-present)
Greenland (1992-present)
Grenada (1984-present)
Guadeloupe (1977-present)
Guatemala (1961-present)
Guinea-Bissau (1989-present)
Guyana (1970-present)
Haiti (1957-present)
Hawaiian Islands (1964-present)
Honduras (1961-present)
Hong Kong (1974-present)
Hungary (1992-present)
Iceland (1972-present)
India (1923-present)
Indonesia (1964-??, 2000-present)
Iraq (1931-72, 2004-present)
Ireland (1972-present)
Italy (1953-present)
Ivory Coast and Guinea (1971-present)
Jamaica (1961-present)
Japan (1957-present)
Jordan (1977-present)
Kazakhstan (1994-present)
Kenya (1964-present)
Kiribati (1967-present)
Korea (1964-present)
Kuwait (1972-present)
Kyrgyzstan (1994-present)
Laos (1967-present)
Latvia (1999-present)
Lebanon (1970-present)
Lesotho (1971-present)
Liberia (1964-91, 1998-present)
Lithuania (1999-present)
Luxembourg (1962-present)
Macau (1989-present)
Madagascar (1972-present)
Malawi (1970-present)
Malaysia (1964-present)
Mali (1985-present)
Mariana Islands (1978-present)
Marshall Islands (1977-present)
Martinique (1984-present)
Mauritania (1978-present)
Mauritius (1964-present)
Mexico (1961-present)
Moldova (1996-present)
Mongolia (1994-present)
Morocco (1967?-present)
Mozambique (1985-present)
Namibia (1981-present)
Nepal (1972-76, 1982-present)
Netherlands (1962-present)
New Caledonia and Loyalty Islands (1971-present)
New Zealand (1957-present)
Nicaragua (1961-present)
Niger (1975-79, 1992-present)
Nigeria (1967-present)
Norway (1962-present)
Oman (1978-present)
Pakistan (1957-present)
Panama (1951-present)
Papua New Guinea (1969-present)
Paraguay (1961-present)
Peru (1957-present)
Philippines (1964-present)
Poland (1992-present)
Portugal (1962-present)
Puerto Rico (1972-present)
Qatar (1978-present)
Réunion (1972-present)
Romania (1991-present)
Russia (1991-present)
Rwanda (1972-96, 1997-present)
Sabah (1998-present)
St. Lucia (1983-present)
St. Vincent and the Grenadines (1981-present)
Samoa (1970-present)
São Tomé and Príncipe (1996-present)
Sarawak (1998-present)
Senegal (1975-present)
Seychelles (1972-present)
Sicily (1995-present)
Sierra Leone (1975-present)
Singapore (1972-present)
Slovakia (1998-present)
Slovenia and Croatia (1994-present)
Solomon Islands (1964-present)
South Africa (1956-present)
Spain (1957-present)
Sri Lanka (1962-present)
Sudan (1971-present)
Suriname (1977-present)
Swaziland (1967-present)
Sweden (1957-present)
Switzerland (1962-present)
Taiwan (1967-present)
Tajikistan (1994-present)
Tanzania (1964-present)
Thailand (1964-present)
Togo (1975-present)
Tonga (1970-present)
Trinidad and Tobago (1971-present)
Tunisia (1956-??, 1974-present)
Turkey (1959-present)
Turkmenistan (1925-38, 1992-present)
Tuvalu (1981-present)
Uganda (1956-79, 1981-present)
Ukraine (1992-present)
United Arab Emirates (1974?-present)
United Kingdom (1923-present)
United States of America (1925-present)
Uruguay (1961-present)
Uzbekistan (1994-present)
Vanuatu (1977-present)
Virgin Islands (1967-present)
Venezuela (1961-present)
Western Caroline Islands (1985-present)
West Leeward Islands (1991-present)
Yemen (1984-present)
Zambia (1967-present)
Zimbabwe (1964-present)

II) National Spiritual Assemblies Not Currently Functioning (Dates of Operation)

Afghanistan (1972-79)
Algeria (1967-69)
Brunei (1966-??)
Burundi (1969-74, 1978-95)
Egypt (1924-60)
Iran (1934-83)
Vietnam (1957-78)

III) National Spiritual Assemblies Absorbed into Another

Bophuthatswana (1981-95, absorbed into South Africa)
Ciskei (1985-95, absorbed into South Africa)
Sikkim (1967-92, absorbed into India)
Transkei (1980-95, absorbed into South Africa)

IV) Independent Countries without National Spiritual Assemblies

Andorra
Bhutan
Bosnia and Herzegovina
China, People’s Republic of
Comoros
Djibouti
Korea, North
Libya
Liechtenstein
Macedonia
Maldives
Malta
Monaco
Nauru
San Marino
Serbia and Montenegro
Somalia
Syria
Timor
Vatican City
Western Sahara

V) Special Case
Holy Land (Israel and Palestine)

Keyvan

Postby Keyvan » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:38 am


Dawud
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:59 pm

Postby Dawud » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:08 pm

I'm curious about the situation for Baha'is in Iraq. Anybody know anything, or have a good link?

Omid

Postby Omid » Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:49 pm

According to the Ridvan message of April 2004 Iraq does have a NSA and there are quite active (among themselvs I would imagine)

With the security situation in Iraq so volotile right now its hard to promulgate the Faith safley. How ever I do have a picture of Iraqi Bahai youth attending a Ruhi class. (hard copy)

Omid

Postby Omid » Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:56 pm

In regards to China...

I just got back from there. In Beijing, the capital of the Communist Government there are a number of Bahai institutions that cater to forgien Baha'is, i.e. a new letter, A full time childrens school, a Bahai commitee, activites, even an institute set up jointly by the Bahais and the Chinese government to translate the Bahai writtings. I have a photo also of a replica of the Shrine of the Bab built in China by a Chinese architect, life size. They also have documentaries that show on TV describing the Faith and the Bahai gardens in Haifa.


Return to “Discussion”