Should Baha'is Watch Show Dipicting Christ?

[Guest]

Tomorrow night NBC will air a new show called The Book of Daniel in which an Episcopalian minister, among other things, has conversations with Jesus, Who appears to him like a real person (as opposed to a glowing vision). My question is this: Should Baha'is watch this show? We have clear guidance on not depicting any Manifestation of God in any way, but we have been given guidance that does not pertain to artistic representations of past civilizations, however, this is the present and we know that representing a Manifestation in any way takes away from the dignity of His station. This show, of course, is not a Baha'i sponsored program. Records also show that 'Abdu'l-Baha once attended a play, which had a man playing Christ and the Master was very moved, so what do you think?

[Baha'i Warrior]

Baha'is should not depict them. But someone else did it, but were Baha'u'llah or the Bab or 'Abdu'l-Baha to be depicted obviously we should shun it but it's Christ so it's okay I think.

[Hasan]

Well, for general culture I watched Mel Gibson’s Passion of Christ, also movies about Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc… I recall a quote of Lights of Guidance which says we are not forbidden to watch any movie.

[Baha'i Warrior]

Well, for general culture I watched Mel Gibson’s Passion of Christ, also movies about Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc… I recall a quote of Lights of Guidance which says we are not forbidden to watch any movie.

...quote?

[Hasan]

...quote?

341. Movies

"With reference to ... question whether it is permissible for the Bahá'ís to see pictures; there is nothing in the Teachings that would forbid such a practice."

(From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of India, December 14, 1940: Dawn of a New Day, p. 85)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 99)

[Baha'i Warrior]

There is nothing saying we can't rent porn either

Should you do it?

Are you a Baha'i?

Do you just need laws and think thats all to spiritual progress?

—Warrior

...quote?

341. Movies

"With reference to ... question whether it is permissible for the Bahá'ís to see pictures; there is nothing in the Teachings that would forbid such a practice."

(From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of India, December 14, 1940: Dawn of a New Day, p. 85)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 99)

[Hasan]

There is an insane attitude to qualify the status of a bahá'í, to be extreme conservative is so bad as extreme liberal... warrior you are so fundamentalist that now you are doubting that I am bahá'í... lol

Warrior you should understand that we humans (including bahá'ís yes!) live in this world; we cannot try to bottle ourselves into a bubble.

For example, the world (society, media, papers, radio, literature, etc.) is full of sex, but we cannot close our eyes to all the society because we live in it!, we have to face the problems, keep firm against the troubles. In the actual moment it is impossible not to see the bad things of this world, what we should do is not absorb them.

[Baha'i Warrior]

warrior you are so fundamentalist that now you are doubting that I am bahá'í... lol

Warrior you should understand that we humans (including bahá'ís yes!) live in this world; we cannot try to bottle ourselves into a bubble.

For example, the world (society, media, papers, radio, literature, etc.) is full of sex, but we cannot close our eyes to all the society because we live in it!, we have to face the problems, keep firm against the troubles. In the actual moment it is impossible not to see the bad things of this world, what we should do is not absorb them.

No,

not according to the Guardian

we must shun things that are obvious corrupt (music, movies)

this is a fact, read the Guardian's writings

so are you saying we should "open" our eyes and go and watch smut? i dont know what you are tying to say. facing the problem doesnt mean putting the DVD into your player and then watching it, lol

[Baha'i Warrior]

it is up to what what we want to do, but always remember the Guardian states that "The Baha'i standard is very high!"

[Hasan]

it is up to what what we want to do, but always remember the Guardian states that "The Baha'i standard is very high!"

Go ahead! Good luck! but what I'm saying is that, as you live in this world, you have to face the situations not closing your eyes to everything or you will fall in thinking you are right... but you are only lying yourself... do you understand?

[onepence]

it is up to what what we want to do, but always remember the Guardian states that "The Baha'i standard is very high!"

I see where you are coming fro Baha'i Warrior ... it is like kissing and all that stuff ... but hey we are digressing a little bit here ... we were I think supposed to be discussing watching whether or not it was appropriate to watch some tv show or anothere ...

of course it is individual choice .... but I will relate to you a story ...

I loved Joan of Arcadia ... same sort of theme as this new tv show ... the show as far as I know is off the air right now and was about some girl having visions where she thinks she actually sees and talks to God {and we the viewers of this show get to see this interaction} ... and God would appear as a differenct Character each week {a child,a punk rocker,an old lady, etc ... } and would give Joan {whom was from the city of Arcadia} different tasks to do ... like befriend so & so ... or join such & such high school club .... ... oh well interesting show to say the least ...

but I did have two problems with it ...
and both where very very serious problems
and I wasn't even aware at the time of how serious the problems were ...

the first one is rather minor compared to the second one ...
the first problem was that the show sort of teaches the viewer that it is okay to use{abuse} your imagination{part of our soul} to have telepathy {or at the very least direct communication with} God ...

I think Abdu'l Baha' says something like .... to stay away from psychic forces ... that yes they do exists but it damages the soul ...

for me now ... I am treaded on very very thin ice ... it seems to me that Abdu'l Baha used psycic forces very very well ... I mean He gets all these tablets to all the right people ... but I digresss the Writings clearly state to stay away from psychic forces ....

like I say the choice is up to various individuals if you want to watch shows like this but I personally do have some serious doubts as to whether this will ultimately help you .... mainly because of my second problem I had in watching Joan of Arcadia .... which was .... and I truly regret what happened next and maybe someone whom is reading this note can learn from my mistake ...

... I was doing some roof work at the Grosvenor Hotel {disney orl} and was having lunch in the employee cafeteria when I over heard a man {whom always had a big following sitting at his table} make some sort of remark against Joan of Arcadia ... we discussed it for a minute and he thought it was blasmpemous and I said how much I really really liked it ... ... ... we never really spoke to each other again {and that is why I regret speaking up about that one tv show}

but on a brighter note the tv show did bring my wife and I closer togethere .... we both have fond memories of watching that tv show .... however I doubt I will be watching the new tv show ...

oneness
dh

[brettz9]

'Abdu'l-Bahá when watching a play about the life of Christ wept afterwards (and I don't think it was because the play was bad!) It is in 239 Days in America...

Now this does not mean that we as Bahá'ís would write such a play ourselves:

The prohibition on representing the Manifestation of God in paintings and drawings or in dramatic presentations applies to all the Manifestations of God. There are, of course, great and wonderful works of art of past Dispensations, many of which portrayed the Manifestation of God in a spirit of reverence and love. In this Dispensation, however, the greater maturity of mankind and the greater awareness of the relationship between the Supreme Manifestation and His servants enable us to realize the impossibility of representing, in any human form, whether pictorially, in sculpture or in dramatic representation, the Person of God's Manifestation. In stating the Bahá'í prohibition, the Guardian pointing out this impossibility.

However, note that the above says nothing about not seeing such art.

BW, I think you really need to temper your absolute expressions here. We have no clergy in this Faith...Difficult questions are to be handled by the House of Justice if they are not already...You have several times here very vehemently insisted about something which turned out to be contradicted, or at least not specified, by the Writings.

I would even question the name you have assumed (though I realize its figurative meaning). As far as our communications with others (which this forum is), our words, as Bahá'u'lláh counsels, should be primarily as mild as milk.

Rather than accusing people of not being faithful, let's try to adhere to the advice of the House of Justice that we first state what we think seems to us not to be faithful, and give the person a chance to explain or restate (I can't find the letter now, but it is onsite here). But you (nor I nor anyone here) is an official interpreter of the Writings.

Though you may mean well, I am not sure you have considered how such vehemence can actually be harmful. If nothing else, we ought to consider Bahá'u'lláh's words on gentleness and tolerance as equal in being a command, as are His injunctions to righteousness:

The heaven of true understanding shineth resplendent with the light of two luminaries: tolerance and righteousness.

(Lawh-i-Maqsud)

sincerely,
Brett

[Guest]

'Abdu'l-Bahá when watching

...

Brett

wow ... hey bret your post was/is way cool ... I know I know you and others probably hate my use of slang language but none the less my feelings are true ...

I hope you continue to come to this site and encourage us in our stuidies of our sacred Writings. ...

... on a side note I think the Universal House of Justice had a statement which included a phrase about the Puritans ... in fact a quick search here at this site lead to this from Robert Stockman

http://bahai-library.com/unpubl.articles/america.html

"Because there was no national church on this continent Puritan Calvinism soon became the dominant form of Christianity in British North America. This is in sharp contrast to Europe, where the Calvinists usually were in the minority. In New England almost everyone was initially a member of a Puritan church; the churches constituted a kind of "national church" especially in Massachusetts; and in the early 1600s one could not vote in local and state elections unless one was a "saint," that is, had undergone a conversion experience and had been admitted into a Puritan church."

... lol ... I would say we are going to have some very interesting times here in North America ... and I do hope that this small core group that is posting on this thread will continue to grow in love fellowship and unity

oneness
dh

[brettz9]

Dear dh,

Thank you for your kind expression of gratitude...The internet provides a wonderful means for us to learn from one another, as I do from you and the others here...

And no, in general, I don't mind any slang which is not derogatory, irreverent, or coarse... If you are concerned about the historical academicness of this site, I don't think Jonah means for it to be snobbish either... :)

best wishes to you,
Brett