Arabic and Persian project...

All research or scholarship questions
brettz9
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Arabic and Persian project...

Postby brettz9 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:11 am

Hello all,

Now that the text browser project supports multiple languages at once (and we aim to add as many as possible), it will also be convenient at some point in the hopefully not-so-distant future, to tie in the ability to provide automatic word-by-word translations of the Writings (alongside the official translations), in order for people to both study the source language itself, as well as to be able to get a hint at some of the other connotations of the word in question.

I have already developed a prototype for such translation, but I have not yet received word on whether we have permission from the author/compiler to use the only free dictionary for Persian (and Arabic) that I know of which is out there...I asked for permission from a project which hosts multiple free dictionaries, and below is his reply...

Although I am sure everyone is busy, maybe someone can help with his request for assistance?

Both Arabian and Persian dicts were not created by our project.
Links onto source dictionaries are at:
http://dicts.info/dictionaries.php
please use the dictionaries from original projects. Both these
languages are pretty weak in the UD because we do not have
german-xy or french-xy dictionaries to eliminate ambiguity of
english words.

You seem like a person who can solve this problem. All we need is
to assign Arabic and Persian words to english definitions/words.
If you would help us to add Arabic and Persian into the UD I
would gladly allow you to use all 47 new dictionaries for both
these languages from the UD. To add entries it takes to fill this
table: http://dicts.info/files/new_language.xls


When I replied that I was not fluent in these languages, he replied in part:

Arabic is in disadvantabe because there is only ONE free dict
available. To add entries automatically into the UD I need THREE.
Contributors added many entries but I am afraid to add them
(because I could add incorrect entries). It would be terrible to
have 50 Arabic dicts from UD with errors. World cannot afford
that. I need help with Arabic please help! I do not know any
users who speak Arabic. (the same goes for Persian). It would be
great to mention their language pages at Dicts.info at Arab and
Persian forums. Users do not know that they are very close to
having LOAD of free dictionaries almost without work.


I hope someone out there knowledgeable in either Persian or Arabic (or possibly others) might be inclined to help the free open-source community out by doing something which could provide benefits both for our projects on site here, as well as innumerable others...It is really a shame, I think, that there are no other Persian (and scarce Arabic) free resources out there already...

best wishes,
Brett

majnun
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Postby majnun » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:06 pm

This is a good idea.

Majnun

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:08 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, Majnun...

Actually, as long as the words are in a database, it is not that much harder to make an interface to allow people to make at least word-by-word translations for a whole text at a time, rather than just one word at a time...Maybe if it would not be too demanding on Jonah's server, we could release the translation interface (assuming we get access to a free dictionary) as a service to the public and allow users to translate whole texts (word-by-word) of whatever text they wanted (as well as the automatic translations to be available for the Writings), since it would not be difficult to do this...

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:32 pm

The more I think about it, the more incredible I think it would be (including for our own project here) if someone out there could help this Universal Dictionary project along. There are about 800 or so words they needed translated for their base.

Although (with permission), we could use a much larger databases for Farsi to English (or any other available languages), if we provided assistance for this project, those 800 words could allow direct translations into a host of other languages...Thus, we could provide automatic word-by-word translations of the Writings directly into Spanish, French, etc., etc. without having to reinvent the wheel (since others have already done these translations)...

Otherwise, we'd have to individually obtain Persian to Spanish, Persian to French, Arabic to Spanish, Arabic to French, etc., etc. By entering them once according to this Universal Dictionary system, it would only have to be done once...

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:38 pm

Also, I am still in need of a Farsi translator for about (currently) 200 words/phrases...

By doing the translation you could help the multilingual Writings browser (still developing new features for it) at http://bahai-library.com/browser be available in Farsi (as well as allow anyone who downloaded and adapted our open-source project the ability to have the interface already translated into Farsi for the browsing of their own texts)...

Send me a private message if someone out there may be interested...

best wishes,
Brett

Hasan
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Postby Hasan » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:32 pm

Dear Brett, which dictionary you recommend to download from that page?

I would like to have an english-arabic or english-persian, but, is there a transliterated one? (I don't know how the arabic and persian letters looks like :)

thanks

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:23 am

As far as Persian, the only one I have seen is at http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~amishak/Persian_d ... onary.html (go to English to Persian (or Persian to English) obviously). It is very large. I can't vouch for the quality, but it is very large. 46,000 words...It is stated as free, but I still haven't gotten word from the author as far as any permission to reproduce online. But for your personal use at least, his site says its free...

He actually does not use the Arabic/Persian script in his documents (for the smaller Arabic-English version either--you might want to look into other Arabic dictionaries online, as there seem to be others and probably have more entries). If you're curious, here is how his transliteration scheme of letters correspond to Arabic letters... I don't know if there may be any very rare characters missing, but here are at least the most basic ones...Also, be aware, the script will differ depending on whether the letter is in the beginning, middle, end, or alone...You can do a Google search for [google]Persian alphabet[/google] to find a suitable introduction. Doing one myself turned up this Wikipedia article which includes the letters, but not in the traditional Persian ordering. The most straightforward one (and in the right order) I think is here. You can even hear the alphabet being sung!

a ا
b ب
p پ
t ت
c ث
j ج
G چ
H ح
K خ
d د
Z ذ
r ر
z ز
J ژ
s س
S ش
C ص
x ض
T ط
X ظ
e ع
Q غ
f ف
q ق
k ک
g گ
l ل
m م
n ن
v و
h ە
y ی
i ء

best wishes,
Brett

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:04 am

Did anyone happen to have downloaded specifically the English to Persian dictionary at the webiste I mentioned? My computer is now toast (not sure I can recover its data) and his website is now off-line.

Since the author stated the software was free without qualifying it in anyway,and since he did not respond to my attempts to inquire about its use, I believe I may be justified in using his work in our backend database, at least until such time as he may communicate with us (otherwise).

This could really be valuable for us. If someone could email it to me (if you have a copy), that would be really great...I don't need the Persian to English version, just the English to Persian one...

thanks,
Brett

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:00 am

Also, here is the translation interface as it stands now for anyone who is interested: http://bahai-library.com/browser/farsiform.php

Brett

shm
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tablet in arabic

Postby shm » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:54 am

Does anybody know where on the internet I can find the Fire Tablet in arabic and the Tablet of Ahmad in the original language, I dont know if its arabic or persian.

Thank you so much in advance

Hossein
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Postby Hossein » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:26 am

Dear shm
Here you can find them, but I do not know that you can read arabic:
http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/RTT/rtt-7.html

Both tablet are in arabic, link show you content of a book, on page 215 / ۲۱۵ is tablet of Ahmad
and on page 219 / ۲۱۹ is the tablet of Fire.

shm
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Postby shm » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:06 pm

thank you so much for the links

and regarding your comment that I can read arabic, I cant read arabic but my mom can, at least the bahai arabic writings and shes the one who wanted it, but I couldnt find it on the web, so thank you once again

Baha'i Warrior
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Postby Baha'i Warrior » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:40 pm

Is there any website out there that has the Persian/Arabic originals side-by-side with the english version, or that indicates that "this" Arabic/Persian Writing (or prayer) is the equivalent of an English translation? I would appreciate it if anyone can let me know if such a thing exists on the 'net.

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:45 pm

I'm not sure that I fully understand the last part of your question, but the first part is a timely question.

I've finally been able to put up, for just a couple of texts, the originals alongside the English (the Aqdas and Hidden Words).

I've also succeeded in adding automated word-by-word translations.

See http://bahai9.com/browse0.php

I would really appreciate any feedback.

best wishes,
Brett

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:52 pm

Please note that the "search fields" area is not working at present... You have to specify a range of verses...

Anything that is confusing, you can either ignore, play with (you can't hurt anything), or ask me about. Just keep in mind that if you enable all the fields and select a wide range of verses, it will be a drain on the server, so if it is slow, try a smaller range/fewer fields.

Also, for the fields that allow back/forwards (wiki (presently disabled) and Google), this only works with Firefox (but it is not an essential feature).

best wishes,
Brett

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:47 pm

Oh, everybody, sorry that http://bahai-library.com/browser/farsiform.php wasn't working for a while... Now it is working again...

best,
Brett


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