What does Baha'i say about Christ as the only way to God?
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:39 pm
If Baha'i teaches Christ as a prophet, amongst others, then doesnt that conflict when He claims he is the only way to God?
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nnnick wrote:If Baha'i teaches Christ as a prophet, amongst others, then doesnt that conflict when He claims he is the only way to God?
nnnick wrote:what about when Jesus says "No-one comes to the Father except through me"?
what about when Jesus says "No-one comes to the Father except through me"?
does he mean this only for a certain time, and when does this time end, and another begin?
My understanding is that all prophets claimed to be prophets eg muhammad ("there is one God and muhhamad is His prophet"), but Jesus never did this. He even went as far as to say that He and God were the same.
we should say
that we wish to get closer to ourself, instead of
using an imagined person, and not spread the false impression
we are in a close contact with a god.
God is not a physical distance away from us; He created time and space and therefore cannot be bound by these things.I wonder why people wish to go there, near god, while the
creator is 4 or 5 light years away.
- without God? of course not! without Him, i am nothing, i have no purpose, no meaning, no function... what a depressing life (unless you embrace ignorance-and even then...)!!are you not happy inside
your own body ?
And even if you really come near the imagined god,
what will it give you ?
To serve and obey- we must serve something, ourselves or something else. to serve ourselves doesnt bring about any kind of long lasting joy, as we soon discover that we cant give ourselves everything we want. To obey God's commands, well that is not something he tells us to do because he is some kind of power-greedy being, but because it is the path that brings about the most good. it is not an order, but directions to happiness.Nearness to god, what is that ?
To become as Him is impossible. To become like Him is the goal (in most aspects, eg. I do not desire His power, but i desire to have His love, etc). To evade something; yes, corruption and desires that lead us away from becoming like Him.To become like him ? To evade something ?
What's the purpose of maintaining this man made dream ?
Smart people also dont care about the stanley cup, soccer, and who's
gonna win the Idols contests on tv. They do something with their lives.
nnnick wrote:If Baha'i teaches Christ as a prophet, amongst others, then doesnt that conflict when He claims he is the only way to God?
O FLEETING SHADOW!
Pass beyond the baser stages of doubt and rise to the exalted heights of certainty. Open the eye of truth, that thou mayest behold the veilless beauty and exclaim: Hallowed be the Lord, the most excellent of all creators!
Dear nnick
Thank you for your rationalisation and explanations
about the god you imagined. If you and many others rely
on a god they imagine, I dont mind.
You wrote: close contact with God exists, and a personal relationship can be obtained. getting closer to yourself is a by-product of closeness with God, while Baha'u'llah states clearly such a thing is impossible.
But if you stick so much to that idea (a superstition) , prove it, tell us what that "god" tells you, if you are so "close" to him ?
nnnick wrote: ...
And i also hope that there arent any objections to having a Christian as part of a Baha'i forum group!!
majnun wrote:Dear Tahari,
Either with or without a capitalized G,
there is no God at all.
MJ
onepence wrote:nnnick wrote: ...
And i also hope that there arent any objections to having a Christian as part of a Baha'i forum group!!
nnnick,
It is an honor to have you {and you writing{s}/style} on this forum.
I personally find no objection to you or any Christian to be here.
I pray that you will continue to visit us and to offer your thoughts to this little discussion forum.
God never fails!
oneness
the apstole dean
In the Name of God, the Exalted, the Most High
THE source of all good is trust in God, submission unto His command, and contentment with His holy will and pleasure.
The essence of wisdom is the fear of God, the dread of His scourge and punishment, and the apprehension of His justice and decree.
The essence of religion is to testify unto that which the Lord hath revealed, and follow that which He hath ordained in His mighty Book.
The source of all glory is acceptance of whatsoever the Lord hath bestowed, and contentment with that which God hath ordained.
The essence of love is for man to turn his heart to the Beloved One, and sever himself from all else but Him, and desire naught save that which is the desire of his Lord.
True remembrance is to make mention of the Lord, the All-Praised, and forget aught else beside Him.
True reliance is for the servant to pursue his profession and calling in this world, to hold fast unto the Lord, to seek naught but His grace, inasmuch as in His Hands is the destiny of all His servants.
The essence of detachment is for man to turn his face towards the courts of the Lord, to enter His Presence, behold His Countenance, and stand as witness before Him.
The essence of understanding is to testify to one's poverty, and submit to the Will of the Lord, the Sovereign, the Gracious, the All-Powerful.
The source of courage and power is the promotion of the Word of God, and steadfastness in His Love.
The essence of charity is for the servant to recount the blessings of his Lord, and to render thanks unto Him at all times and under all conditions.
The essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds; he whose words exceed his deeds, know verily his death is better than his life.
The essence of true safety is to observe silence, to look at the end of things and to renounce the world.
The beginning of magnanimity is when man expendeth his wealth on himself, on his family and on the poor among his brethren in his Faith.
The essence of wealth is love for Me; whoso loveth Me is the possessor of all things, and he that loveth Me not is indeed of the poor and needy. This is that which the Finger of Glory and Splendour hath revealed.
The source of all evil is for man to turn away from his Lord and set his heart on things ungodly.
The most burning fire is to question the signs of God, to dispute idly that which He hath revealed, to deny Him and carry one's self proudly before Him.
The source of all learning is the knowledge of God, exalted be His Glory, and this cannot be attained save through the knowledge of His Divine Manifestation.
The essence of abasement is to pass out from under the shadow of the Merciful and seek the shelter of the Evil One.
The source of error is to disbelieve in the One true God, rely upon aught else but Him, and flee from His Decree.
True loss is for him whose days have been spent in utter ignorance of hisself.
The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice, is for man to free himself from idle fancy and imitation, discern with the eye of oneness His glorious handiwork, and look into all things with a searching eye.
Thus have We instructed thee, manifested unto thee Words of Wisdom, that thou mayest be thankful unto the Lord, thy God, and glory therein amidst all peoples.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 155)
Majnun wrote:Praying is not obligatory for westerners, as Shogi mentioned, it is an eastern custom.
"...The genuflections and washing of hands and face (as clearly put down in 'Prayers and Meditations of Baha'u'llah', which he himself translated), associated with the two longer daily prayers (obligatory prayers) are laws of Baha'u'llah, applicable to any Baha'i whether of Muslim background, Christian background or otherwise. It is blasphemy to suggest otherwise. However, the Baha'is have been left free by Baha'u'llah to choose one of the 3 obligatory prayers, and those who prefer not to perform these acts can say the very short one."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of Germany and Austria, June 30, 1949)
Majnun wrote:make prayers that gives you the power [sic] to heal a sick person other than you,
Physical healing cannot be complete and lasting unless it is reinforced by spiritual healing. And this last one can be best obtained through obedience to the laws and commandments of God as revealed to us through His Manifestations. Individual believers, however, can also help by imparting healing to others. But the success of their efforts depends entirely on their strict adherence to the Teachings, and also on the manner in which they impart them to others. According to Baha'u'llah man cannot obtain full guidance directly from God. He must rather seek it through His Prophets. Provided this principle is clearly understood and explained, the Guardian sees no harm that the friends should try to effect spiritual healing on others. Any such cure effected, however, should be done in the name of Baha'u'llah and in accordance with His teachings.
For God, and God alone, is the Supreme and Almighty Physician and all else are but instruments in His hands."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, May 23, 1935: Extracts from the Guardian's Letters on Spiritualism, Reincarnation and Related Subjects, p. 8, in Lights of Guidance, no. 929)
"In the Book of Aqdas Baha'u'llah urges us, that when we obtain any physical ailment we should refer to the doctor and abide by his decision. Physical and spiritual forces have both to be used to secure the speedy recovery of the patients; no partial treatment is sufficient. So you should pray for your son and also be faithful in your obedience to the directions of the physicians who are trying to restore him to health."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, June 1, 1933 in Lights of Guidance, no. 939)
Majnun wrote: put your sex life into neutral forever, and so on.
In the evening some clergymen announced a meeting to observe the crucifixion of Christ. The Master remarked, `Their speeches in the meeting will be to the effect that Christ sacrificed Himself in order to redeem us from our sins. But they do not understand the inner meaning.' After the meeting He spoke extensively on this subject. `The redemption of sins', He said, `depends on our acting upon the admonitions of Christ, and the martyrdom of Christ was to cause us to attain praiseworthy morals and supreme stations.'
(Mahmúd's Diary, April 6, 1912)
Jonah wrote:The best article on this topic is Seena Fazel and Khazeh Fananapazir's "A Bahá'í Approach to the Claim of Exclusivity and Uniqueness in Christianity," in <i>The Journal of Bahá'í Studies</i> 3.2 (1990), which is online at http://bahai-library.com/?file=fazel_fa ... anity.html
Next, read Seena Fazel's "Understanding Exclusivist Texts" from <i>Scripture and Revelation</i> (London: George Ronald, 1997) at http://bahai-library.com/?file=fazel_un ... vist_texts . See section 1, "Christian Exclusivist Texts."
Then see Fazel's two articles on Religious Pluralism, a shorter (unpublished) encyclopedia article at http://bahai-library.com/?file=fazel_en ... _pluralism and a longer version published in <i>Interreligious Insight</i> (July 2003) at http://bahai-library.com/?file=fazel_re ... sm_insight
-Jonah
The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other.
This humiliation will continue forever. The time may come when in Europe itself they will arise against the Jews. But your declaration that Christ was the Word of God will end all such trouble. My advice is that in order to become honorable, protected and secure among the nations of the world, in order that the Christians may love and safeguard the Israelitish people, you should be willing to announce your belief in Christ, the Word of God. This is a complete statement; there is nothing more. Is it not thoughtless, ignorant prejudice which restrains you from doing so? Declare that, verily, the Word of God was realized in Him, and all will be right.
The rabbi thoughtfully said, "I believe that what you have said is perfectly true, but I must ask one thing of you. Will you not tell the Christians to love us a little more?"
We replied, "We have advised them and will continue to do so."
Praise be to God! You are living in a land of freedom. You are blessed with men of learning, men who are well versed in the comparative study of religions. You realize the need of unity and know the great harm which comes from prejudice and superstition. I ask you, is not fellowship and brotherhood preferable to enmity and hatred in society and community? The answer is self-evident. Love and fellowship are absolutely needful to win the good pleasure of God, which is the goal of all human attainment. We must be united. We must love each other. We must ever praise each other. We must bestow commendation upon all people, thus removing the discord and hatred which have caused alienation amongst men. Otherwise, the conditions of the past will continue, praising ourselves and condemning others; religious wars will have no end, and religious prejudice, the prime cause of this havoc and tribulation, will increase. This must be abandoned, and the way to do it is to investigate the reality which underlies all the religions. This underlying reality is the love of humanity. For God is one and humanity is one, and the only creed of the Prophets is love and unity.
The Master called on the Jewish rabbi, showered him with kindness and countless blessings, and spoke to him regarding peace and harmony among the Jews, Christians and Muslims as well as the need for respect for the leaders of each other's religions. The Master said:
Whenever these people mention each other's leaders with due reverence then all sufferings and contentions shall cease and instead of hatred there will be love and instead of enmity and disunity there will be harmony and affection. This is my purpose.
(November 9, 1912)
During the visit of a group of Bahá'ís with the Master, a young girl came in and said, `I have come to ask for your assistance. Please tell me what I am fitted to do so that I may occupy myself with it.' The Master asked, `Do you have trust in me?' She replied, `Yes.' He then said to her, `Be a perfect Bahá'í. Associate with Bahá'ís. Study the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh. Then you will be assisted in whatever you undertake to do.' She then said, `I am a good Jewess.' The Master then said:
A good Jew can also become a Bahá'í. The truth of the religion of Moses and of Bahá'u'lláh is one. Turn toward Bahá'u'lláh and you will acquire peace and tranquillity, you will hear the melody of the Kingdom, you will stir people's souls and you will attain the highest degree of perfection. Be assured of this.
When she heard the Master's words she was so impressed that she threw herself at His feet and wept.
(ibid, August 21, 1912)
But in a place where the commands of a Prophet are not known, and where the people do not act in conformity with the divine instructions, such as the command of Christ to return good for evil, but act according to the desires of nature--that is, if they torment those who torment them--from the point of view of religion they are excused because the divine command has not been delivered to them. Though they do not deserve mercy and beneficence, nevertheless, God treats them with mercy and forgives them.
(Some Answered Questions, Chapter 76)
majnun wrote:prayers
In 1956, while being questioned by Virginia Orbison
about laws of the Aqdas, the Gardian answered this, about prayers:
“There will be laws which are only for the Orient, not for the Occident.” (end of citation)
The Guardian said: I have indicated some of these laws for present observance. I shall see how the people obey them and give them out gradually. Little by little the Guardian will indicate those Laws which are obligatory, binding, and those which are recommended.
Some of the laws such as abstinence from alcohol is obligatory and binding. Also, not to get married in the Church is obligatory and binding. Marriage is a law, but not obligatory. It is recommended that people marry, but not binding upon everyone to do so. Others: Obligatory prayers. There will be laws which are only for the Orient, not for the Occident. Games of chance are forbidden, but as for National Lotteries, it will be up to the International House of Justice to decide. Some to the laws cannot be observed at present.
"Thou has written concerning the pilgrims and pilgrims' notes. Any narrative that is not authenticated by a Text should not be trusted. Narratives, even if true, cause confusion. For the people of Baha, the Text, and only the Text, is authentic."
(Abdu'l-Baha: from a previously untranslated Tablet, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1431)
majnun wrote:We know practice of prayers is a daily routine for most muslims, while in the west,
no more that one person in 200 000 does any prayers at all, unless a calamity had
fallen onto them, I mean no one does that on a regular daily basis. Do you really say
“allahu abha” 95 times every day, like a robot ? If you are honest, you will say: no I dont.
majnun wrote:recitation
It is like the oral recitation of scriptures. This method was introduced after christianity.
The reason is very simple: a vocal recitation makes the written message a part of
you, instead of remaining an intellectualisation of a succession of sentences.
This obligation is mentioned somewhere in the letter to the Nadir shah.
In the west, most people read silently. My guess is that the messages go in deeper
if we recite it vocally. But people are people !
majnun wrote:rites, rituals
Virgina Orbison reports again:
The Guardian said that there should be no kind of rites.
No one is permitted to establish any special manner
of doing things connected with worship. (end of citation)